Mountain Project Logo

New rope/rope system

Original Post
Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,090

So this post is more due to reading about an accident at Seneca recently where a 10ft intentional lead fall lead to a rope being cut which made me seriously think about the strength of my rope as it gets used over time.

I know a lot is out of my control so call it a pseudo risk management/fatal prevention measure but whatever. I’d rather spend the money if it makes a little more sense that it could give me a smidge more safety than continue climbing on rope that I don’t know the longevity of.

currently I have the following ropes with purchase dates and historical usage.

70m 9.5mm single rated petzl Volta purchased in 2021 that’s been cut to 67 from a core shot whopper. Had one other trad lead fall but that’s it. I feel ok about it but after using it say one full 2-3 day weekend about every may, june September, October, I just don’t know how much more safe it would be to get a new rope for rock now or after this season.

Options I’m looking at are more focused on a Beal unicorn that I can use for more versatility. I do have a 70m 9.4 single dry mammut crag clissic for ice and then two 7.9mm 70m Paso guide halfs for alpine ice which those I feel will be fine holding up a few more seasons however I’m willing to sell the newer Paso guides that I’ve only used one trip with no falls.

Does anyone have any insight as to if this is a good idea to replace having climbed around one weekend a month for 4 months a year since 2021 and stored in a dark dry temp controlled basement?

If so would a Unicore rope system be solid to leverage going forward to pair with another for alpine ice and get more use  out of to replace more frequently if used for rock and ice?

Sorry if this is highly subjective, just kind of an impulse thought to give me some more comfort after being spooked from a fatal fall report at a place I consider my home crag. 

Mr Rogers · · Pollock Pines and Bay area CA · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 72

Your rope is likely just fine.
Even new rope exposed to sharp edge wont fair really any better. A loaded rope over a sharp edge is really a bad scenario for any rope of any age.

Things in a rope that do help against cut resistance is % of sheath mass of the rope (higher the better) and overall diameter (more material has to get cut through).Unicore may offer some benefit as the sheath may not "run" exposing more core, which is easy to cut.

The only "cut resistant" rope on the market (for dynamic ropes) is the swift protect pro from Edelrid, which actually does have some cut resistance with the aramid woven into the sheath. Its a very durable rope.

Summorum Pontificum · · Western Europe · Joined Aug 2023 · Points: 0

Your ropes are fine. It’s normal to have ropes used 2-3 times a week for sport redpoints with falls on every outings and they are still good for years. As long the sheath is in good condition and you don’t have bulges or soft spots you don’t have to worry.

Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,090
Mr Rogers wrote:

Your rope is likely just fine.
Even new rope exposed to sharp edge wont fair really any better. A loaded rope over a sharp edge is really a bad scenario for any rope of any age.

Things in a rope that do help against cut resistance is % of sheath mass of the rope (higher the better) and overall diameter (more material has to get cut through).Unicore may offer some benefit as the sheath may not "run" exposing more core, which is easy to cut.

The only "cut resistant" rope on the market (for dynamic ropes) is the swift protect pro from Edelrid, which actually does have some cut resistance with the aramid woven into the sheath. Its a very durable rope.

Dang thank you for this recommendation. I had no idea about that rope and will looks more into it. 

Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,090
Summorum Pontificum wrote:

Your ropes are fine. It’s normal to have ropes used 2-3 times a week for sport redpoints with falls on every outings and they are still good for years. As long the sheath is in good condition and you don’t have bulges or soft spots you don’t have to worry.

I don’t have one yet but I’d say there is a soft spot would you get it cut past that and short the rope to make more of a sport cragging or gym rope? Or just continue to use up to maybe 60 or 50m even for multipitch ? 

Climbing Weasel · · Massachusetts · Joined May 2022 · Points: 0

Regarding the accident, and I hope this question isn’t insensitive- would a twin or half rope system have resisted cutting, or do y’all think both strands would still have been cut? 

Javi Be · · Missoula, MT · Joined Feb 2019 · Points: 0
Climbing Weasel wrote:

Regarding the accident, and I hope this question isn’t insensitive- would a twin or half rope system resisted cutting, or do y’all think both strands would still have been cut? 

Hard to tell, there are many variables to consider. In most cases, yes. A twin/double system is going to be more redundant than any single rope setup. I'm giving a slight edge to the double rope clipping system, since each rope fall line can be substantially different, to the point of having one of the ropes completely dodging the critical rock edge.

Summorum Pontificum · · Western Europe · Joined Aug 2023 · Points: 0
Ray Lovpal wrote:

I don’t have one yet but I’d say there is a soft spot would you get it cut past that and short the rope to make more of a sport cragging or gym rope? Or just continue to use up to maybe 60 or 50m even for multipitch ? 

Yes, I would cut it past the soft spot and keep using the rest of the rope if it's still a useful length for the planned usage. You might even be fine with 30m on specific routes/objectives. 

Summorum Pontificum · · Western Europe · Joined Aug 2023 · Points: 0
Javi Be wrote:

Hard to tell, there are many variables to consider. In most cases, yes. A twin/double system is going to be more redundant than any single rope setup. I'm giving a slight edge to the double rope clipping system, since each rope fall line can be substantially different, to the point of having one of the ropes completely dodging the critical rock edge.

I completely agree. However it's a fact of life that some pitches are simply more dangerous than others unless you top rope them or add fixed gear.

Billcoe · · Pacific Northwet · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 936

I replaced my Son In Laws battery in his Ducati the other day. He's in the next state over and he'd left it behind years back - it was dead, I did it as a favor. Fired that bad boy up, took it out with joy and tried to kill myself. However, I F**Ed up and at one point had the old battery on the top of the freezer in my basement. (Chest freezer, waist high). Days later - I almost put my climbing shit on that spot as it's my traditional staging ground before heading out. Your rope, kept in a rope bag and off of chemicals and shit that will kill it: will last a long, long, long time. But it it touches any sulfuric acid, like off of a battery, which you won't likely see, it will weaken so much that it will easily and quickly fail when you need it most and you will be screwed. Keeping it off of the ground and always in a rope bag is a good thing. I wash my trunk mat every year, just in case. If you are hyper aware of this issue, you should be fine. If not, and you work on cars and carry batteries around,....what's your life worth? 

If you keep an eye on this issue, and don't make a mistake, you should easily get another 8-10 years at least out of that rope. Note that Mfgs usually suggest 3-4 years of regular use and then retire it. If you start pitching on it or hucking long falls, then all bets are off. 

Alex Fletcher · · Las Vegas · Joined May 2016 · Points: 252

I would like to point out that the Edelrid swift protect is an 8.9mm rope which is contradictory to the advice of using fatter ropes with higher sheath percentages to avoid cutting. I had a friend get this rope brand new and get a core shot in the middle during a rappel on its first couple days of use. Very unusual, but that’s the kind of thing that can happen with skinny ropes in general.

That said, this rope is a triple certified rope which means it can be used in a twin/half rope configuration and is on the fatter end of the scale for that use.

From Moosejaw, this interesting tidbit: “when used as a single rope, not suitable for top rope or workout climbing”

Mr Rogers · · Pollock Pines and Bay area CA · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 72
Alex Fletcher wrote:

I would like to point out that the Edelrid swift protect is an 8.9mm rope which is contradictory to the advice of using fatter ropes with higher sheath percentages to avoid cutting. I had a friend get this rope brand new and get a core shot in the middle during a rappel on its first couple days of use. Very unusual, but that’s the kind of thing that can happen with skinny ropes in general.

That said, this rope is a triple certified rope which means it can be used in a twin/half rope configuration and is on the fatter end of the scale for that use.

From Moosejaw, this interesting tidbit: “when used as a single rope, not suitable for top rope or workout climbing”

FWIW The eagle lite is now available with the cut resistant aramid sheath in 9.5mm as posted above by Alec. His link is dead but the rope is real!

Desert Rock Sports · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined Aug 2019 · Points: 2

Fast core shots tend to occur due to jerky rappelling. Very smooth rapping is the way to go. Jerky can "saw" back and forth against the same spot and core shot in a single rappel, easily.

Cosmic Hotdog · · Southern California · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 295

Those ropes sound fine. If you really want to increase your margin of safety against an accident like the recent Seneca Rocks one, using a half/double rope setup seems to be the only thing that could have increased the chances of surviving in that situation. However, that is speculation and we'll never know but it's a heck of a lot more redundancy than relying on a single rope. Personally, I bought double ropes and will use them going forward for my trad days

Ray Lovpal · · Detroit, MI · Joined Dec 2020 · Points: 1,090
Cosmic Hotdog wrote:

Those ropes sound fine. If you really want to increase your margin of safety against an accident like the recent Seneca Rocks one, using a half/double rope setup seems to be the only thing that could have increased the chances of surviving in that situation. However, that is speculation and we'll never know but it's a heck of a lot more redundancy than relying on a single rope. Personally, I bought double ropes and will use them going forward for my trad days

I agree. I think this makes maybe the most sense. my half/twin set up are dry 7.9mm intended for alpine ice though so do you think a more specific system would be worth it like 2 Beal jokers/operas

Cosmic Hotdog · · Southern California · Joined Sep 2019 · Points: 295
Ray Lovpal wrote:

I agree. I think this makes maybe the most sense. my half/twin set up are dry 7.9mm intended for alpine ice though so do you think a more specific system would be worth it like 2 Beal jokers/operas

I decided to get 2 Beal Opera 8.5mm triple rated ropes that I'll be using as doubles. It's a unicore rope and I figure it's the right balance of safety/weight for my risk tolerance and needs.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Climbing Gear Reviews
Post a Reply to "New rope/rope system"

Log In to Reply
Welcome

Join the Community! It's FREE

Already have an account? Login to close this notice.