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A7+ Gel Time solutions
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Hey all, I live in AZ and well, it's hot as Hades during the summer. For those in warmer climates how are you managing gel time and nozzles? The gel time of A7+ is like 2 minutes in 90 degree weather and here in AZ it can be hotter than that by 8AM in the shade. 1 nozzle per bolt sucks. Ron |
Ronnie Miller wrote: A big improvement in gel time should come from switching adhesive type to a pure epoxy (from a hybrid-epoxy) simply because the reaction gel time is slower. Cooling the pack either before you leave home and/or use a cool box. Pre-drill and clean all your holes and ideally glue on descent to reduce the cycle time in-between one placement and the next. |
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A7+ is just not the right choice for the heat. Liquidroc500+ is my preference this time of year and I've also used simpson strongtie SET-3G which has even longer working time but is very runny so not good for overhangs. You can keep the glue in a cooler until you get to the crag, even if its 100+ degrees outside at least the glue can be kept cold. I still wouldn't bother with A7 though |
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I switched to Liquid Roc 500 here for summer bolting. Even with the cooler trick A7/AC100+ wasn't cutting it in the extreme heat. |
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Where are you all buying Liquid Roc 500? |
Mike Bond wrote: Ebay item 265224919933 but it went up in price a little since I last bought Edit: I just realized it's out of stock |
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PSA, don't mix up T7+ & A7+, I recently bought some redhead adhesive at lowes for reinforcing a jug and got to the crag noticing it was T7+ rather than A7+! T7+ has an internal baggie like sika rather than the nicer cartridges like AC100+ and A7+ |
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If you can't find liquidroc, I do recommend simpson set-3G as an alternative for comparable (slightly better) working time in the heat. The main difference is Set 3G is runnier so not the best choice for overhangs but I've still gotten it to work by duct taping the bolts to the rock. It dries medium/light gray so a good match for most rock. It's also the stickiest glue I've ever used, so a great choice if you like to throw on sand/sediment to camouflage the glue. I've used it in the 10oz and 22 oz cartridges with no issues, but I think i saw a review online where someone wasted half a 10 oz cartridge when first dispensing before the two halves were coming out evenly. See ebay item 385602494770 for 22oz cartridge for $35 |
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I use an Ice Mule to keep tubes of AC100+Gold cold here in the Southeast heat. I stick the tubes in the fridge the night before, then day of, drop them in the Ice Mule with some frozen water bottles. They stay sub 50 degrees F all day long. |
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Spoke to MKT and they aren't making the 500+ anymore. They have a new product (800) coming out that will replace the 500+. |
Shawn S wrote: Other than the internals using baggies rather than cartridges, are you aware of other issues? The spec/code sheet seems substantially the same as A7+ and T7+ has a longer working time. |
Ronnie Miller wrote: Yup. Many people will shout me down, but spending a little extra money on a glue that has a gel-time of 20 minutes (such as RE500) will pay for itself in nozzles, time, effort and low frustration levels. I normally bolt in temps between 80-85F and with the placements marked I can drill, brush, blow, glue, sculpt, jug up to the next placement and repeat. I can bolt the route in one pass, with one nozzle, on the way up. Worth every extra cent. |
John Byrnes wrote: A little extra? Last I looked RE500 is like 5x the price of ac100? |
Blake M wrote: He said "such as RE500", there are other products that are comparable in price to ac100! I just ordered a 10 pack of liquidroc 500+ single tubes on ebay for under $200 (<$20 a tube). |
 Willing to part with a few of these for $20 each plus shipping, message me if interested |
Mike Bond wrote: extremegear.org |
Jim Day wrote: Not sure what happened with that guy's tube that it kept pumping out only one of the two parts. Maybe it was a fluke? I've used two tubes of SET-XP recently and it came out evenly right from the beginning. This video? youtu.be/zNwMboyjq1o |
Heliodor Jalba wrote: Yes that's the video I saw! It could have been a fluke, I'm glad to hear you had good experience with set xp because it's readily available at home depot. I haven't tried set xp yet, but I like set 3g and Simpson products in general Edit after reading the simpson blog you posted in the other thread - I don't think I'll bother trying set xp and will stick to set 3g, or liquidroc 500 |
Blake M wrote: Compare the price of the glue to how much you pay for gas to drive to/from your new route. And how much your skilled labor is worth per hour (re: two passes versus one). And not having to put your glue in a cooler and carry that to the crag in Summer. And not worrying about wasting a nozzle and the glue already in it when the glue hardens prematurely. And being able to bolt from the ground up (your weighted rope won't be hitting the bolts you just placed and easier if you have temporary anchors to hold you next to the rock). And the value of not being rushed as you bolt (straight, neat placements). To me, those things are worth a lot. |
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I love Liquid Roc 500+. It's thick enough and gives lots of work time even when temperatures are in the 80s. Simpson SET-XP works great too. It is indeed too runny for non-horizontal embedments but you can duct tape the bolts (if the tape will actually stay in place). I'm looking forward to trying out Simpson SET-3G as it is gray instead of teal. Liquid Roc 500+ has been discontinued according to a whole bunch of people (and the lack of availability online). One person mentioned in another thread on here that EP800 is the successor: As if people aren't picky enough about glues, I'll add to all the nitpicking that Liquid Roc 500+ smells fine whereas Simpson SET-XP has an annoying smell! |
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EP800 has become available at HowNot2 in single and double cartridges: I used it this weekend and it's almost as runny as the Simpson products. Anyone know of any epoxies that are thicker, like Liquid Roc 500+ was? |
