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"Climbing" 14ers and Erin Ton drama
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I think I have a way to solve all of this. About how much dynamite would it take to blow off the top 54 ft of Culebra, and can we get its purchase crowd funded? |
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Falls into the don’t care category for me but she sounds like an entitled POS. Trespasses on private land then gets upset when caught, blocks anyone who doesn’t agree with her, and lies about breaking records…..not the type of person I’d ever follow on social media. |
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For those complaining about the $150 fee to access Culebra. It is all about supply and demand. One cannot summit all the 14K peaks without it. Further, $150 is 2-3 tanks of gas out how many needed to drive around to all the other peaks? Also do not forget that the landowner has expenses including insurance to pay. That said, perhaps as a so called Sportiva "athlete" she should have asked for an advance on her allowance so to pay the fee. |
Allen Sanderson wrote: It’s not about the $150, it’s about the ranch being owned by a Texan oil tycoon, going to court to restrict access to resources for locals and indigenous people who have used the land for generations, and scalping the everloving shit out of what should be a public resource to make a few bucks. I will never understand why people are happy to have lands taken away from them by billionaires and pay them for the privilege instead of examining the main problem - excessive focus on private property and no right to roam laws in the US. just for the record, that has nothing to do with the FKT claims, just pointing out reasons why people wouldn’t want to pay the ranch to hike Culebra. |
Matt Lane wrote: I guess I am not as dialed in up there as I thought I was. Who tracks this? lol So because this young lady from CO logged her time in an app she can call herself the fastest now and all the silent crushers from the 70s, 80s and 90s who never kept more than written notes don't figure into the equation? I mean there is a crusher up in Flag swimming the Colorado River in a halfie and knocking out summits on the other side in times that almost seem unimaginable, as far as I know he has never posted a time or ticked a summit on any app or social media site to date. I feel like he could prob jog next to her with a 70m on his back, but ok I guess she is the fastest in the stravasphere. Not knocking it either, to each their own. I mean I enjoy three day suffer fests to climb a one star crumbly summit block, so who am I to judge? Just seems like an odd distinction on a hike/feat that I have always just considered to be a novelty you did once, to say you did it. All this FKT talk kind of reminds me of the big Arizona Trail FKT showdown last year. I have never seen a thru-hike hyped so much, lol. They did a live Youtube coin flip to determine direction of travel and "fans" were given links to track their progress. Neither of the dudes even finished the trail. One dropped out because of injury, or more likely because he realized he would not be running 800 miles of well manicured alpine trail and the other dropped out shortly after when he determined the FKT was out of reach. So fun! lol |
Shay Subramanian wrote: It's called capitalism (a.k.a. freedom, human rights, democracy, market driven economy). |
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Yep, any limits on a billionaires’ rights to gobble up more and more property and restrict the unwashed public from any sort of access is a slippery slope to North Korea….and would be an egregious abuse of human rights and an affront to Freedom and all we hold dear. Most of Europe is practically begging to be the next North Korea Eye roll |
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Right to roam sounds nice. Unfortunately for us, we have too many messed up people, on both sides of the equation, who have ruined it for everyone else. |
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Right to roam is nice, until the number of people exercising that right gets so large that the backcountry gets trampled and eroded by all the people exercising their right to roam. At that point some kind of regulation (wilderness permits and reservations, landowners charging for access, etc.) becomes a necessary evil to keep the backcountry from being loved to death. We don't just have too many messed up people, we have too many people trying to access the backcountry, often in rather destructive ways. I would be happy to see more public access to places like Culebra/Cielo Vista Ranch if I could be convinced that access to those places could be managed to keep those places from being overrun by crowds. |
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There is no right to roam in the U.S. and there isn't going to be one, any time soon. Not even on public lands do U.S. citizens have a right to roam. Rights are codified in the Constitution and overcoming private property rights sufficiently to pass such an amendment is, frankly, ludicrous. ps. I would vote in favor, btw, if such a vote ever came to the states. |
Yury wrote: Fuck yeah. The right to roam makes Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Iceland, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, and Scotland living hells. It's worse than North Korea! |
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Private land U.S. Our hilarious entitlement never ends |
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if people injure themselves on the land then occasionally they sue. Blame United States law. There was an effort to remove liability for landowners who allowed access, but it did not pass. Hence you get no access or access at a cost. |
Shay Subramanian wrote: Much of what you have written is stereotypical hyperbole. The history of the ranch is quite complex and unique to all of the US. All of which predates the current land owner and everyone else. That said, those being charged are not the right holders or the land owners. Therein is the difference you and others who want access get to pay. So it really is about the $150. |
slo ta wrote: OK, so the NPS says blasting takes 4-7 pounds of explosive per ton of rock. If we assume the offending part of Culebra is a regular tetrahedron 20m tall, that's 1732 cubic meters of rock to get rid of. If the rock weighs about 3 tons per cubic meter, that's 5200 tons. So you'd need 750-1300 pounds of explosives (the document doesn't seem too picky on what type). If a llama can carry 75-100 pounds, that's a train of between 8 and 18 llamas headed up Culebra for our little landscaping project. The llamas can help dragging the fragmented debris below the 14k line as well. Seems pretty manageable. Anyone on MP got a good fertilizer hookup? |
Richard Randall wrote: Who needs fertilizer when Culebra is all bullshit anyways! |
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There is a long history about the ownership of the southern mountains where Culebra and Red Mountain reside. All the way back to the King of Spain as a gift. Concerning that owners have to worry about insurance and such to allow citizens on their land is a crock. National Forest Service would be more than happy to provide an easement corridor that would make the Federal Government liable. I will neither confirm nor deny and at my age easily forget if necessary that there is a way to climb a fourteener that shall not be named though it is discussed a lot in this forum without paying an e-ticket. For those inclined towards special ops find Operation Dark Snake. As a child of the sixties 'This Land is Your Land' by Woody Guthrie has always resonated with me. I will end by saying when my friend and I were finishing up climbing all the fourteeners he opted to buy the e-ticket and I decided to travel my own way, keeping my money in my pocket, breathing free air, and humming Woody's song to the top. Postscript: Strava is like pop music. Cool for three seconds then no wants to hear it anymore. Hiking, climbing, mountaineering, and even MTB is best lived in the moment and even better when you are able to slow those moments down to experience the amazing and beautiful. The best adventure stories over beers never have anything to do with the watch. |
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I like your style Mr. Morris. |
Richard Randall wrote: Because Mountain Project has to be pedantic as shit for spelling errors and the like, 4 pounds per ton would multiply by 5200 tons to get 20,800 pounds which is a lot more llamas. I know a climber who would be very happy to see that many llamas in one place. For the record, very much appreciate the train of thought. |
Kyle Edmondson wrote: Oh man, thanks for the catch, that’s embarrassing. I thought it seemed like suspiciously few llamas… |
