"Climbing" 14ers and Erin Ton drama

I know the climbing discussed here is the "mostly 5th class" kind, and not peakbagging, but for those of you into doing 14ers in Cali or Colorado, what is your take on the Erin Ton story?  According to this article, she did 57 of the 58 (didn't do Culebra), then didn't admit to the omission for awhile, blocked anyone who asked about it and now finally admit she skipped it.

https://www.trailrunnermag.com/people/news/erin-ton-skipping-a-14er/

The takeaway from this article is that she got a bunch of blowback for skipping the peak, but if you read the body it seems that the blowback was mostly from not being transparent about it, lying about why, blocking people, etc.  Culebra is apparently on private property and requires a permit to climb; she'd been caught trespassing on it once before, was photographed flipping off the men escorting her off the property and then claimed he was "banned" from doing it so she skipped it.  Turns out she's not banned, decided not to do it for her own reasons, and then avoided admitting the true story when fluffing on social media about her "self-supported record".

I know for a lot of you this all falls into the "who cares" category, but it's been the talk of the dinner table here at my house.  (Yes, the wife is a peakbagger.)

I think self-reported or self recorded "fastest known time" speed stuff, is ultimately not the kind of achievement that should be lauded.

My experience is on the cycling side, but it seems similar with the Strava driven competitiveness. I was advised for MTB, if you want to go fast, Strava doesn't count, stump up for entry and do it between the tape (ie in a formal race).

The risk of chasing these sorts of things when public roads and trails are involved is also a bit selfish. It says she was driving all over the state at night for weeks with barely any sleep. What could go wrong. In Australia we unfortunately had a famous ultra-cyclist die a week or so into an attempt at a non-stop transcontinental speed record.

Yeah... a lot of people skip Culebra because of the access fee. 

That article also mentions her being a bit rude to other trail users. 

I don't know. The whole craze over FKTs to complete all the 14ers has some unclear rules. Like self-supported, why do you get to use a car? Someone can THEROETICLY start to shed hours if they just speed on the highway between peaks. I recall somewhere out there is a story of someone doing it all human powered and cycling between peaks for a summer. Surely that's better style and more meaningful. But I don't think his goal was to go fast, it was to finish. 

There are so many trail running challenges in Colorado at this point. It all seems like moving goal posts and deciding on arbitrary collections of routes to hang your hat on. Leadville 100, Nollan's 14, FKTs for individual routes, those are all consistent feats that can be used to benchmark oneself in the world of trail running. Why complicate it all with the logistics of transporting and support vs. self-support? 

Sam M wrote:

I think self-reported or self recorded "fastest known time" speed stuff, is ultimately not the kind of achievement that should be lauded.

My experience is on the cycling side, but it seems similar with the Strava driven competitiveness. I was advised for MTB, if you want to go fast, Strava doesn't count, stump up for entry and do it between the tape (ie in a formal race).

The risk of chasing these sorts of things when public roads and trails are involved is also a bit selfish. It says she was driving all over the state at night for weeks with barely any sleep. What could go wrong. In Australia we unfortunately had a famous ultra-cyclist die a week or so into an attempt at a non-stop transcontinental speed record.

My feelings exactly. I was following a thread about it over on 14ers.com. Funny that Erin is dismissive and rude to the only group of people on the planet who give a shit about 14er FKTs.
I appreciate going fast, but these FKT challenges, (including the 8000m peaks), have jumped the shark for me.
Erin and I do agree on one thing though: how dumb it is to pay to climb Culebra just so you can tick off the 14ers. Folks get so crazy about these lists they can’t see straight. 

Bale wrote:

I appreciate going fast, but these FKT challenges, (including the 8000m peaks), have jumped the shark for me.…

That would now be better written as,

….”these FKT challenges, (including the 8000m peaks), are now just pimpin the Squatch as far as I’m concerned”.

Gotta keep up with the times
(no pun intended)

I don't know who said first but "there is no cheating in the mountains, only lying" seems to apply here.  

I'll also say that along with "no cheating" there are certainly different styles to climb/live in and some styles are clearly better in one aspect than another but people have other reasons to pick a specific style.  For example, cycling between peaks is definitely the preferable style if a secondary goal is a low carbon footprint but it doesn't make it the only valid option.  Helicopters between peaks would be another style on the same continuum but it obviously has a bigger carbon footprint.  If our only goal was reducing our carbon footprint we wouldn't be chasing arbitrary goals of climbing mountains.

FKT’s are kinda cool but only to a select few people and only if you’re honest and transparent on how it was done logistically.  Pretty bad omission to just not mention you skipped one of the peaks.  For whatever reason.

I’ve done all the CO 14’s except Culebra.  I’ve just never wanted to pay and get a permit.  I get it.  But I did the 14’s over a span of 42 years (the longest known time?). And no one cares if I did Culebra or not.

Jeff G wrote:

  I get it.  But I did the 14’s over a span of 42 years (the longest known time?). And no one cares if I did Culebra or not.

when you think about it, an LKT is quite an accomplishment.   Requires planning and fitness over a very extended period.  Gotta be on your A game to achieve an LKT and you gotta really plan well and for delayed gratification to break the record

Edit:  gotta be a rule though that you can’t start until your 16th birthday to avoid injured kids and some lame parent pushing their 6 yr old up a mountain.  Then save the easiest one for your 90’s

I have said for years that when someone does the first unsupported nude snowboard circumnavigation of the South Pole while singing God Save the Queen, I will take notice. Until then it is a bunch of mouth masturbation.  

I think how we choose to move through the mountains and whether or not we share our adventures with other people is a reflection of who we are and what we value. I know some of you out there have had some epics that you’ve only shared with the people you’re closest to - or maybe only you and your partner know. Or maybe you were solo and didn’t tell anyone at all. If you think that what other people think matters, think again. This is why my friends and I choose to go after the fastest unknown time (FUKT). Because we’re all fukt in the end and it’s the adventure itself that really matters. 

to add fuel to the fire, she apparently was also extremely rude to other trail users during her "FKT" attempt, posting that other hikers were "too slow" and "in her way"..

if you're gonna do something like this and make it public, have some class. no need to bash others. from another thread on 14ers:

https://www.14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63109

Allen Sanderson wrote:

I have said for years that when someone does the first unsupported nude snowboard circumnavigation of the South Pole while singing God Save the Queen, I will take notice. Until then it is a bunch of mouth masturbation.  

Are there separate categories for regular vs. switch?

Culebra is a 14er by only 54ft lol, how shitty.

If you were to do a very public FKT and talk about it... but didn't want to pay to hike a private peak... I could see her trespassing to hike it and not posting a Strava track to self incriminate as well as just not hiking it and just leaving it out of the count. If she did hike it illegally... she really can't disclose unless she wants to get sued, right? Seems maybe she should have planned out better how to disclose, regardless of which way she chose to go.

Seems like Culebra should just be removed from the FKT list if it causes such a collective pain point for people...

This FKT, with driving time etc. in between... Like its a cool talking point, but having it be a class of FKT is a terrible idea. Like cool you did a whole lot in a short period of time, but 100% you were not the fastest person to do those individual peaks in all cases, and lets not incentivize speeding and lack of sleep. Only tracking actual time on feet hiking/running is what's typical for FKTs. IE car to car, and that makes a ton of sense.

Edit:
Last year she did 2x R2R2R in 25h53min starting 1-2 days before I finished my single R2R2R (~53mi NK to BA to Plateau Pt to BA to Market to SK to NK) in 27h48min.
Like twice the distance in less time. She fast fast as fuck boi.

Edit2: Fee to be able to hike Culebra is $150, WTF.

Just one more way Internet / social media has FKT the outdoors

"Twitching with Ton: Justification for an Elitist Attitude"

The late, great Galen Rowell would’ve been awesome at this. He loved hot rods and rumor has it that he drove like a mad man in the Sierras. Moot point though, because he preferred first ascents and quality climbs. 

You can’t just automatically expect others on the trail to jump and make way for you.   This is rookie hubris and a mistake.   As a seasoned veteran,  I always pre-post signs at the trailhead with a few reminders along the way to instruct others how to behave properly.  Then they will know when they hear “FKT COMING THROUGH !!”  They are to step off trail and turn to offer their water bottle or a snack with an outstretched hand.  Most Gumbies don’t naturally know to do this, and a few jerks will still refuse regardless.   

Setting aside her faux pas, that's still an impressive accomplishment.

Mark Pilate wrote:

You can’t just automatically expect others on the trail to jump and make way for you.   This is rookie hubris and a mistake.   As a seasoned veteran,  I always pre-post signs at the trailhead with a few reminders along the way to instruct others how to behave properly.  Then they will know when they hear “FKT COMING THROUGH !!”  They are to step off trail and turn to offer their water bottle or a snack with an outstretched hand.  Most Gumbies don’t naturally know to do this, and a few jerks will still refuse regardless.   

Theres's already a code, you indicate "Get out my way gumby I'm on the clock, badass coming through" with a cry of "STRAVA!"

There's a joke that a newbie though that was how mtbers greeted each other on the trail. "Happy strava, and strava to you too!"

Alright you yanks, I see a solution here.

Metric system to the rescue. Redefine the challenge as climbing all the 4300m peaks. This excludes Culebra and a couple of other ones that probably noone will miss. Problem solved.

gotta be in the dark, full raging storm, ambients in the -20s, carrying some sorry ass carcass out, or it didn't happen