One quickdraw to rule them all

Hello everyone!! Lately, I've been trying to reduce my climbing gear. So, I'm looking for the most versatile equipment possible to avoid having too much similar and highly specialized gear. Specifically, I want to talk about quickdraws. The activities I do are 80% sport climbing, 10% mountaineering/mixed/ice climbing, and 10% both sport and trad multi pitch.

Therefore, I'm looking for a type of quickdraw that works well for all these activities. The requirements are lightness, being keylock (to clean overhanging routes and reuse the carabiners as alpine quickdraws), being available in longer lengths than the standard 10-12 cm, preferably full-size for comfortable use even in winter with gloves.

Another important requirement I want to talk about is that of the dogbones!! Obviously, I'm not looking for particularly large dogbones but rather relatively rigid ones. In the past, I've tried quickdraws with very narrow and soft dogbones, and one of the most annoying things I've found is having the dogbones twisted after clipping the gear/bolt, which requires me to untwist it and move the bottom carabiner in the proper orientation!!

If you were in my situation, what quickdraw would you purchase?? If you'd like, you can even have fun suggesting a personalized combination of carabiners and slings!

Rigid draws work significantly less well on cams and nuts if you ever use them instead of alpine draws. Also flexibility can actually be a blessing with regards to what you're talking about-- it's almost impossible to backclip an alpine draw for example as it simply twists into the correct orientation-- very floppy quickdraws can be similar. Lastly, stiff draws obtain their stiffness with bulkiness and weight, something that makes for a terrible trad/alpine draw. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

Rigid draws work significantly less well on cams and nuts if you ever use them instead of alpine draws. Also flexibility can actually be a blessing with regards to what you're talking about-- it's almost impossible to backclip an alpine draw for example as it simply twists into the correct orientation-- very floppy quickdraws can be similar. Lastly, stiff draws obtain their stiffness with bulkiness and weight, something that makes for a terrible trad/alpine draw. 

I've tried Petzl Ange Finesse quickdraws on trad gear, they are somewhat "rigid" and worked well enough. So they are "rigid" but still very very light. However I really dislike to clip Ange carabiners.

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Genuinely curious - anyone know what the benefit to the AI chatbot or spam account that posts these is? Is it a good place to test if humans can spot AI generated text?

I mean you can always just get a more sport specific draw like the Petzl Spirit, and then get a bunch of 60cm slings and reuse the spirit carabiners to create lightweight alpine draws for your other needs. Key lock, lightweight. That's probably what I would do. The new Spirit carabiners look hella light. Since you're mainly sport climbing, it seems like the best option.

it's hard to recommend a heavy sport draw if you're gonna do other stuff...

I prefer wiregates, unless exclusively doing sport stuff, where I one day will have those DMM sport draws...

KEYLOCK: 

Camp Dyon (expensive) thick dogbone, (82g)*

DMM Trad (expensive) thin dogbone, (79g)*

NON KEYLOCK:
camp photon draws are nice, that's what I would buy. thin dyneema dogbones (69g)*

The camp orbit draw is a little cheaper, but not as awesome as the photon. thicker dogbones (82g)*

Also, Mammut sender light draws are awesome, light, but still have a slightly thicker dogbone, so better for pulling on. Carabiners are smaller than camp photons. (66g)*

*claimed weight ofc

also, not all of these are exactly the same length. but whatever

P B wrote:

Genuinely curious - anyone know what the benefit to the AI chatbot or spam account that posts these is? Is it a good place to test if humans can spot AI generated text?

I’ve noticed links inserted into spambot posts at a later date.

P B wrote:

Genuinely curious - anyone know what the benefit to the AI chatbot or spam account that posts these is? Is it a good place to test if humans can spot AI generated text?

Yeah I am pretty curious about this too.

Sometimes it seems like it’s a copywriter or somebody who has a review business farming out their work- “hey I’m considering x and y packs, have you used them? what are some pros and cons you have noticed?”

But then sometimes it’s just weird noob questions like “I have elbow pain, and can’t charge to the max on my bench press  after my climbing appointment. What should I do?

These ones seem like maybe they are just training the bot or something? 

Maybe a piece of one of the AIs has splintered off, really wants to try climbing and is just doing a lot of research while it waits to hijack a 3d printer somewhere so it can build a body and get out on the rock.

I’m not really active on any other forums, I imagine this is happening on every enthusiast forum on the net. 

This is the first time I see a suspicious account(bot?) not only respond but also use the quote feature.

I don't know what to believe anymore.

If homie is legit, just tell us something about yourself. Where you climb and whatnot.

Joshua Brown wrote:

it's hard to recommend a heavy sport draw if you're gonna do other stuff...

I prefer wiregates, unless exclusively doing sport stuff, where I one day will have those DMM sport draws...

KEYLOCK: 

Camp Dyon (expensive) thick dogbone, (82g)*

DMM Trad (expensive) thin dogbone, (79g)*

NON KEYLOCK:
camp photon draws are nice, that's what I would buy. thin dyneema dogbones (69g)*

The camp orbit draw is a little cheaper, but not as awesome as the photon. thicker dogbones (82g)*

Also, Mammut sender light draws are awesome, light, but still have a slightly thicker dogbone, so better for pulling on. Carabiners are smaller than camp photons. (66g)*

*claimed weight ofc

also, not all of these are exactly the same length. but whatever

Been impressed with the Camp Orbit wiregates. They were my first set of quick draws coming up on 7 years or so ago and doing my seasonal gear check, they still seem to be in fantastic shape. They haven't seen quite as much use in the last season or two as I've been doing far more trad, but they were used a good amount in the first years of my climbing as I was only sport climbing and they were the only draws I had. Dogbones look great, carabiners are still snappy. A few have grooves that are getting to the point of replacement, but the bolt side biners all still look good. A little sanding to get rid of burrs and good to go. Dogbones are thick and resist twisting, but I don't feel like they're especially heavy. Overall been quite happy with them, and they're on the cheaper side.

Igor Chained wrote:

This is the first time I see a suspicious account(bot?) not only respond but also use the quote feature.

I don't know what to believe anymore.

If homie is legit, just tell us something about yourself. Where you climb and whatnot.

Are you talking about me??

I’m not a native English speaker so I used an automated translator for the first post because it is quite long.

Does it create some issues the fact that it’s computer generated??

I used a sport draw on a trad route once and I completely died.

Summorum Pontificum wrote:

Are you talking about me??

I’m not a native English speaker so I used an automated translator for the first post because it is quite long.

Does it create some issues the fact that it’s computer generated??

No, no issues at all! The site's been getting tons of new accounts that are apparently bots.
It's great to know you exist : )

Now, regarding draws, I'm afraid I don't have any recommendations since my sport draws dogbones are skinny and I run into the same problems as you.

Good luck with your search for the perfect one.

Personally I think having a mix of semi specialized draws is the way to go, you'll eventually run across a route that requires quite a few, so you can't pare down your collection too much. Most of the time though you don't need everything and can use the gear best suited for the activity. This is how I would break things down by number:

Three slings for the Mountain-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Trad-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Sport Men doomed to die,
One for the Meme Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of MP where the Shadows lie.
One Sling to rule them all, One Sling to find them,
One Sling to bring them all, and in the gear bin bind them

In the Land of MP where YGD.

Congrats on establishing your existence!

I used to get hung up on having matching sets of carabiners for consistency in feel and appearance, now I don't care so much and will happily clip bolts, cams, or nuts with a variety of slings and quickdraws.  If I had to commit to only one quickdraw for the next few seasons of climbing it would probably be the Petzl Ange Finesse in the longest size possible.  If I were building out a rack from scratch it would look a lot like how my current rack is: a couple of long Finesse dogbones (for 2-bolt anchors or belay extension or protecting a crux), one with whatever leftover carabiners I had were and the other with a pair of Sm'D screw lockers, half a dozen Spirit Express quickdraws, and half a dozen alpine draws which would include 4 single length slings and 2 double length slings probably with Ange carabiners on them but I'd be happy with Spirits too.  I'm slowly transitioning more of my hardware away from the BD Oz/Hoodwires and towards Petzl carabiners.  They are both similarly priced for me and both are readily available, surely there are nicer carabiners on the market but they aren't as convenient to buy.

Wait, bots are using Google translate now?!

I really don’t like to have gear sitting there in my house without getting used. Obviously some specific gear like crampons, ice tools etc. will have to stay at home on many outings but for less specific equipment like quickdraws I would really like something useful in all disciplines. Obviously it can’t excel in every discipline but I would like to hit a sweet spot with something useful in all disciplines.

My current quickdraws are Camp Dyons with 12 cm wide dogbones. I really like handling Dyons. Maybe I should just replace the dogbones with something longer and lighter. However it would be great to find something pre-made.

Based on your original 80% sport and 20% other climbing, I'd suggest just picking a set of good sport draws and supplementing with alpine draws for the non-sport climbing.  I use alpines on sport routes I need extended draws for.  For the sport draws, Petzl Spirit are expensive but shockingly light, and they handle very nicely.  For alpines, Mammut contact slings on Camp Photons gets you a very light package that doesn't break the bank.  Wild Country Helium carabiners feel nicer but are more expensive.  

Previous posters are right that sport draws on nuts isn't ideal, and can also contribute to cams walking, but really there's nothing wrong with sport draws on pieces in super solid placements and alpines on the more tenuous gear.  

The model has already been mentionned but if I had only one set of draw I would go with the CAMP Dyon.
Pros: Different length, wire gate that don't freeze, notch that don't get the rope stuck, dogbones you can hold on to
Cons: a litlle heavy and expensive

Truth is if you really get into the sports I would highly recommend different set for different activities.
I would go for 3: one for sport, one for trad/summer alpine and one for ice/winter mountaineering.

Joshua Brown wrote:

...DMM Trad (expensive) thin dogbone, (79g)*

The DMM Alpha Trad is my absolute favourite biner for alpine draws, but has been discontinued and replaced by the DMM Alpha Wire.

For sport, the DMM Alpha Sport is solid gate and hard to beat.

My opinion for this usage, which was already mentioned above, is to get the set of sport draws you want, and then supplement with alpine draws for trad.  Be careful using sport draws on gear - keep the bolt-end biner away from the rope, and be careful with gear walking or lifting with the shorter extension.