Ropes with cervical stenosis?

Hi everyone, 

I've been diagnosed with severe foraminal stenosis at c5-c6.   My neurosurgeon thought it would be best to delay surgery since I have no serious symptoms (except for the excruciating pain in my shoulderblade that sometimes radiates down my arm). I have instructions to avoid impact exercises and falling which has absolutely crushed my spirit since my favorite activities are running and rock climbing.  I'm fine giving up running and bouldering if I can keep some climbing activities.  Top rope seems easy enough to manage safely, but I wondered specifically about sport climbing.  Anyone have experience with this type of injury that continued to lead?  I pretty much always try not to take any massive whips, but I don't think most doctors understand the dynamics of a lead fall, and quite frankly, neither do I.

TIA

Alyssa Faria wrote:

Hi everyone, 

I've been diagnosed with severe foraminal stenosis at c5-c6.   My neurosurgeon thought it would be best to delay surgery since I have no serious symptoms (except for the excruciating pain in my shoulderblade that sometimes radiates down my arm). I have instructions to avoid impact exercises and falling which has absolutely crushed my spirit since my favorite activities are running and rock climbing.  I'm fine giving up running and bouldering if I can keep some climbing activities.  Top rope seems easy enough to manage safely, but I wondered specifically about sport climbing.  Anyone have experience with this type of injury that continued to lead?  I pretty much always try not to take any massive whips, but I don't think most doctors understand the dynamics of a lead fall, and quite frankly, neither do I.

TIA

What's the cost benefit analysis? Meaning what do you stand to lose if things go wrong? I'm guessing paralysis or severe pain and injury at the least? If running is too much impact then taking a big lead whip is definitely an issue. The dynamics of lead fall in an idea situation are probably okay but keep taking lead falls and inevitably you hit your head or take a bad impact of some kind. Also, not to be a chicken little but the worst neck injury I ever got climbing was from getting yanked into a wall really hard while belaying a leader who fell at the anchor after pulling out a ton of rope to clip. And who outweighed me by 40 lbs. Top rope seems like a really safe option. 

I've been dealing with potential Ankylosing spondylitis or at least some type of rheumatoid arthritis issue that has some very similar symptoms. It can be a hard condition to properly diagnose, but my SI joints are calcifying and some of the vertebrae spacing is decreasing in my lower back. My c-spine seems like it is also being affected, but there is no imagery to back up my self diagnosis on that..... yet. Nerve pinching is a thing for me.

I know what I'm dealing with is a little bit of apples to oranges to what you are dealing with. But A.S. is similar in that it can make nerves angry at the root. Not sure what to say about leading sport routes and taking falls. That will be a personal choice. Feel free to DM. 

A few at the crag specifics I do to help minimize pain once the "fun" wears off:

-Belay glasses. Ain't no way am I cricking my neck while belaying. 

-Some type of padding to sit on at the crag. I think even for a c-spine issue this will help with impact, spine neutrality, and posture. Like a bleacher pad.

-Nerve flossing/gliding. Keeping those nerves that branch off from the c-spine from getting pinched elsewhere along their path to the hands. I do these before and after climbing a pitch.

I don't have spinal stenosis, but I do have herniated discs from my C5-C7. I've chosen to not go the surgery path at this point and have had the herniated discs for around 9 years. I've never taken a fall that has aggravated my neck. I can't climb without belay glasses though. Even looking up for a minute or two while belaying crushes my discs. 

If you decided to test it out, maybe take a couple falls at the gym to see how your body reacts.

I know when my injury first occurred it would have been unthinkable to climb for months afterwards. It took years before I didn't deal with significant pain on a daily basis, and I've done just about every type of therapy you can. I still go through long periods where I feel great then like the flip of a switch the pain and discomfort is back.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/885952/Cervical-stenosis

Above links to a discussion initiated by John Bachar on Supertopo about the same topic. 

Keith S wrote:

I've been dealing with potential Ankylosing spondylitis or at least some type of rheumatoid arthritis issue that has some very similar symptoms. It can be a hard condition to properly diagnose, but my SI joints are calcifying and some of the vertebrae spacing is decreasing in my lower back. My c-spine seems like it is also being affected, but there is no imagery to back up my self diagnosis on that..... yet. Nerve pinching is a thing for me.

I know what I'm dealing with is a little bit of apples to oranges to what you are dealing with. But A.S. is similar in that it can make nerves angry at the root. Not sure what to say about leading sport routes and taking falls. That will be a personal choice. Feel free to DM. 

A few at the crag specifics I do to help minimize pain once the "fun" wears off:

-Belay glasses. Ain't no way am I cricking my neck while belaying. 

-Some type of padding to sit on at the crag. I think even for a c-spine issue this will help with impact, spine neutrality, and posture. Like a bleacher pad.

-Nerve flossing/gliding. Keeping those nerves that branch off from the c-spine from getting pinched elsewhere along their path to the hands. I do these before and after climbing a pitch.

   

I actually have lupus and wonder if that has anything to do with the deterioration of my spine, so I feel you.  Will definitely keep all these tips in mind.  I do wear belay glasses, which I find super helpful. And it's never a bad idea to have a soft place for resting, although I probably won't do a whole lot of outdoor climbing anymore.  I had actually never heard of nerve flossing, but just looked it up and seems like a good thing for me to try.  Thanks for weighing in!

phylp phylp wrote:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/885952/Cervical-stenosis

Above links to a discussion initiated by John Bachar on Supertopo about the same topic. 

Thanks for the link - will check it out. 

Mark D wrote:

I don't have spinal stenosis, but I do have herniated discs from my C5-C7. I've chosen to not go the surgery path at this point and have had the herniated discs for around 9 years. I've never taken a fall that has aggravated my neck. I can't climb without belay glasses though. Even looking up for a minute or two while belaying crushes my discs. 

If you decided to test it out, maybe take a couple falls at the gym to see how your body reacts.

I know when my injury first occurred it would have been unthinkable to climb for months afterwards. It took years before I didn't deal with significant pain on a daily basis, and I've done just about every type of therapy you can. I still go through long periods where I feel great then like the flip of a switch the pain and discomfort is back.

Sorry about the disc issues, but it's great that you've been able to get back out there.  Like you, I have days when I don't really notice and other days where it's intolerable, and no OTC meds have provided relief.  Also like you, I've never taken a fall that's caused pain in my neck, so that was my curiosity.  I know it's a possibility, which of course I try to minimize, and not that I don't care about other areas of my spine, but I don't mind as much if it's my mid or lower back absorbing the impact because miraculously, I don't have any issues there (and that's another yet. I suspect this is all in time).  I still seem to be okay looking up while climbing, but keeping your belay glasses idea in my back pocket.  I rely on them for belaying so they're always with me.  
I'll take a few small falls the next time I decide to lead and see how that feels.  It's probably going to be a lot of taking on more difficult moves.  I've also always been a very dynamic climber and that just isn't going to work anymore.  I know that my days of try hard are over, but it's hard to let go of something you love. 

Alyssa Faria wrote:

Hi everyone, 

I've been diagnosed with severe foraminal stenosis at c5-c6.   My neurosurgeon thought it would be best to delay surgery since I have no serious symptoms (except for the excruciating pain in my shoulderblade that sometimes radiates down my arm). I have instructions to avoid impact exercises and falling which has absolutely crushed my spirit since my favorite activities are running and rock climbing.  I'm fine giving up running and bouldering if I can keep some climbing activities.  Top rope seems easy enough to manage safely, but I wondered specifically about sport climbing.  Anyone have experience with this type of injury that continued to lead?  I pretty much always try not to take any massive whips, but I don't think most doctors understand the dynamics of a lead fall, and quite frankly, neither do I.

TIA

Not a direct answer to your question but - I just got diagnosed with Spinal Stenosis due to a right side tremor (in my right hand)

Based on what I've learned I wouldnt imagine taking a fall on a dynamic climbing rope would hurt you. High impact activities like running are out but hot yoga, climbing and bike riding are working for me now

Maybe get back to leading some easier routes - you maybe cant take as many risks but shouldnt have to stop climbing

Matt Pierce wrote:

Not a direct answer to your question but - I just got diagnosed with Spinal Stenosis due to a right side tremor (in my right hand)

Based on what I've learned I wouldnt imagine taking a fall on a dynamic climbing rope would hurt you. High impact activities like running are out but hot yoga, climbing and bike riding are working for me now

Maybe get back to leading some easier routes - you maybe cant take as many risks but shouldnt have to stop climbing

Thanks, Matt!  I'm happy to hear these activities have been safe for you and feel a little bit more secure getting back on some easier leads.  I'll stick with my safe range and will be happy to be able to just enjoy that. 

I started climbing a couple of months ago and I really like it. I have a degenerative disc disease diagnosis (5 slipped discs, arthritis, etc) but by staying active and returning to my PT exercises, I've been able to stay relatively pain free the past few years vidmate.onl/  .

But the better I get at climbing, the worse my back feels. I was wondering if any of you ladies also have back problems and how climbing has affected you. For what it's worth, I've been trying to stick with top rope rather than Bouldering because the better I get at that, the more I fall from high places and have a greater chance for a high impact fall.

taxo diggs wrote:

I started climbing a couple of months ago and I really like it. I have a degenerative disc disease diagnosis (5 slipped discs, arthritis, etc) but by staying active and returning to my PT exercises, I've been able to stay relatively pain free the past few years.

But the better I get at climbing, the worse my back feels. I was wondering if any of you ladies also have back problems and how climbing has affected you. For what it's worth, I've been trying to stick with top rope rather than Bouldering because the better I get at that, the more I fall from high places and have a greater chance for a high impact fall.

This sounds like a bot post.

phylp phylp wrote:

This sounds like a bot post.

Hmm.  Not saying it isn't, but I wouldn't know the point if it is.  

taxo diggs wrote:

I started climbing a couple of months ago and I really like it. I have a degenerative disc disease diagnosis (5 slipped discs, arthritis, etc) but by staying active and returning to my PT exercises, I've been able to stay relatively pain free the past few years.

But the better I get at climbing, the worse my back feels. I was wondering if any of you ladies also have back problems and how climbing has affected you. For what it's worth, I've been trying to stick with top rope rather than Bouldering because the better I get at that, the more I fall from high places and have a greater chance for a high impact fall.

It might just be that you're engaging muscles that you did not use before, but I'm not sure that's something you should be feeling in your back.  
I personally don't think any good comes from bouldering.  I'm fairly sure that bouldering is responsible for 99% of my injuries over the last 20 years and long term, might very well be the reason my neck is in such a state.  Top rope is the least likely to hurt you in any way.  You should not take any high impact fall top roping unless your belayer is totally incompetent. 

Alyssa Faria wrote:

I personally don't think any good comes from bouldering. I'm fairly sure that bouldering is responsible for 99% of my injuries over the last 20 years and long term . . .

The most serious injuries Pat Ament and I have sustained happened when bouldering. My lower back governs how far I can walk without stopping for a moment of support and straightening as best as I can. Modern crash pads must help a lot, but still there is the possibility of a back injury. 

Reading the 2009 Supertopo link on Bachar is saddening. RIP