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Mentioned this to some climbers recently as they were top roping through anchors. They thanked me for the advice then shrugged and said we're from Florida. As if that explained why they didn't know this. I enjoyed it and it has become my go to excuse for doing things wrong. |
Kyle McPheeters wrote: "We're from Florida". Gold. Going to adopt this. The excuse I got last year at CoR was "they're kids, they're light...". |
Kyle McPheeters wrote: I'm using this, and it's even kinda true. |
Worth noting that this isn't universal and in some areas you'll even see the route developers/maintainers running TRs through the hooks. I don't have a strong opinion on this one but I would discourage folks from attempting to shame others at the crag, especially on routes that don't get a ton of traffic. And while developers can be excused because they're putting in the work, donating to ASCA is also pretty great (especially with a fat corporate match). |
John Luke Lusty wrote: It is not shaming, it is educating. Some people just cannot accept any criticism. A discrete comment is not going to destroy someone’s ego. Know your crag rules. |
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The predominant etiquette in the U.S. is NOT to top rope through fixed lowering hardware. This is my education approach and it generally does the trick... I say something like this when and if it's appropriate. "The etiquette (at this wall, at this area, in this state) is not to top rope on the fixed anchor hardware. Instead, to ensure the lowering carabiners/hooks doesn't get worn out too quickly, the etiquette is to build an anchor with personal gear which the last person cleans and then the last person is the only one to lower off the fixed lowering carabiners/hooks." I helped two new climbers learn this at Shelf Road recently and it was a very friendly interaction. For me personally, if my partner and I are both leading a route, the first person up builds an anchor just for their lower and the second person cleans it and lowers off the fixed gear. It's one less lower on the fixed hardware. I've made a couple exceptions when it's lowering hardware I've placed on the anchors personally. |
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If you own the mussies you can do what ever you like. When I go to a new crag, I start out knowing I don't own the mussies (or other fixed hardware) so I will err on the side of caution. Seems pretty simple. The out of doors is not the fucking gym. |
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anyone have data on how fast steel hooks actually wear? maybe some real world examples? |
curt86iroc wrote: |
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Last person lowering is arguably very sensible and certainly quicker, but personally I rappel and put the anchor wear at close to zero. While I wouldn't recommend this to inexperienced people I actually think that it is safest method for me, as there is zero chance of communication errors and I'm only depending on myself. |
Victor Creazzi wrote: That doesn’t really give me what I’m looking for. I was hoping to see some examples like, “here’s a super worn hook that was replaced xx years ago.” I guess what I’m looking for is some data on how quickly these hooks are actually wearing. |
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This weekend I overheard a "guide" explaining to his clients to not top rope through fixed gear like links/leavers/mussies/lower-offs BUT then he said how its totally ok to top rope through rap rings because they rotate....ahh so close! I wonder how many clients he has told this to... My rule of thumb is never top rope off of gear unless you or someone in your party put it there! |
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Oof, best punch these people straight in the dick. They won’t forget to tr through their own gear next time |
Victor Creazzi wrote: Except you are presumably relying 100% on someone else to get to the anchor |
John Clark wrote: John! No! This is bad. Be nice |
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If it is acceptable to top rope through the mussies then the guidebook or MP page will say so. Some areas invite climbers to do this as the developers want to keep things as dead simple as possible for climbers and prevent accidents. I think it's worth noting that clipping the mussies and then putting a locker above them puts all the wear on the biner and not on the mussies. Such a simple setup really leaves no excuse for wearing out the mussies while top roping at the vast majority of crags where this is not good etiquette. Article for those that wish to learn more/see this demonstrated. |
Alex Fletcher wrote: This is nice actually. It's assuming all the offenders are dumb, arrogant, selfish, entitled Male climbers. And we honestly know that's true:) |
Victor Creazzi wrote: On overhanging terrain or a traverse this doesn't work if you're cleaning draws or gear. To minimize the possibility of communication errors where the climber thinks they're being lowered (but gets taken off belay and decks), it's best to do the same thing every time. Since lowering works for all cleaning situations, that's the safer option. Lowering accidents are a real risk in single pitch climbing. |
curt86iroc wrote: I have replaced worn mussy hooks that were deeply grooved from toproping that I know were probably - 4 years old. I’ll try to see if I have any photos. The thing is that once the wear starts they go really fast - once that groove starts the rope is consistently running in the same spot. Hooks are actually quite expensive, and it is a PITA to be having to replace them - takes energy away from doing maintenance on other routes that also need TLC. Something to consider. |
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ErikaNW, I'd hazard a guess that the worn mussies were in sandstone? Just curious |
