How many years does it really take to climb an 8a?

I asked myself this question many times, and I ended up analysing an entire dataset of logged ascents to figure out the answer. The analysis ended up becoming a video and I thought you might enjoy it 

Let me know what you think

  youtu.be/p19-G2sBl1k

If you live near a good gym and motivated, less than 2 years.

apross wrote:

If you live near a good gym and motivated, less than 2 years.

lol after 2 years of climbing 3x a week in a good gym for two years I had onsighted precisely one 6a. A lot of people go faster then that, but then again, a lot of people don't. Seems to depend pretty heavily on how old you are when you get into it. If you're not in your early 20s or younger it seems to be a pretty slow process advancing through the grades for most. 

I'm hoping to climb outdoors at least three times a week for then next ten years and I highly doubt I'll manage to even top rope an 8a in that timeframe. 

OP, interesting video! Well done.

Mate, don't take this the wrong way but if you really went to the gym that much and only got up one 6a = 10a in all that time, you were not trying hard enough  

Off course genetics/ body type etc make a difference. But I've seen it firsthand, it does tend to be younger folk.

apross wrote:

Mate, don't take this the wrong way but if you really went to the gym that much and only got up one 6a = 10a in all that time, you were not trying hard enough  

I can assure you I try much harder than most climbers, but unfortunately significant chronic health problems affect my climbing just as significantly as they affect all areas of my life. Still think onsighting 6a (10a YDS) outdoors is a pretty normal progression after two years-- at least for most people I've seen get into climbing in their mid to late twenties, thirties, and forties. Now, my progression since then has certainly not been normal and I've progressed very little since then in terms of free climbing ability, but I also went through a lot of periods of my body giving me the middle finger and not cooperating with my climbing and life plans in that time. 

5.11 (6C) in the next three years or bust though =)

Ricky Harline wrote:

I can assure you I try much harder than most climbers, but unfortunately significant chronic health problems affect my climbing just as significantly as they affect all areas of my life. Still think onsighting 6a (10a YDS) outdoors is a pretty normal progression after two years-- at least for most people I've seen get into climbing in their mid to late twenties, thirties, and forties. Now, my progression since then has certainly not been normal and I've progressed very little since then in terms of free climbing ability, but I also went through a lot of periods of my body giving me the middle finger and not cooperating with my climbing and life plans in that time. 

5.11 (6C) in the next three years or bust though =)

Motivated, but maybe not effectively training. 

I still haven’t hit more than 7c+, but I did onsight 11c in yosemite in under 2 years and 7a+ redpoint in YPS in under 3. Been plateau’d at 7b+ max onsight for a couple years now with some training. You can check how I train in my profile link. Tbh haven’t tried many 7C+\8a though, as I prefer flashing and onsighting. I have no patience for more than 3 session projecting.

For the majority of the climbing population, infinity years.

6 years for me with sporadic training, loads of outdoor bouldering/sport climbing and very little direction.

I have only climbed one southern 8a

To go in to detail, I think this is an even more useless question than the usual "Is it possible for anyone to climb this particular difficult grade?" 

For those who do, it may be anywhere between 6 months (or less!?) and 30 years (or more) and will be a completely personal journey.

Of the things that are required, some are in the climber's control, some are not, hard and regular training by itself is not sufficient, you need the lifestyle, the partners, at least some luck, and OF COURSE there is a significant genetic component.

Sorry to hear about the health issues, stick at it mate!

Sam M wrote:

To go in to detail, I think this is an even more useless question than the usual "Is it possible for anyone to climb this particular difficult grade?" 

For those who do, it may be anywhere between 6 months (or less!?) and 30 years (or more) and will be a completely personal journey.

Of the things that are required, some are in the climber's control, some are not, hard and regular training by itself is not sufficient, you need the lifestyle, the partners, at least some luck, and OF COURSE there is a significant genetic component.

Adam Ondra and magnus had a video where they said they thought no matter what the genetics are they thought anyone (if they don’t start too old) can climb 8a if they work hard enough. After that they thought genetics come into play.

I tend to agree with this. 

How many years to earn $150K/year?  Might be an inverse correlation. Lots of people do it 2 years out of school. And think anyone can if they just try.  Lots more never do. Which skill is more useful?

Plenty of people don't care enough to ever try for 8a... let alone 7a.

There is a lot of fun low pulley injury risk climbing out there.

saign charlestein wrote:

Adam Ondra and magnus had a video where they said they thought no matter what the genetics are they thought anyone (if they don’t start too old) can climb 8a if they work hard enough. After that they thought genetics come into play.

I tend to agree with this. 

Yeah, and Dave Macleod said he had "average" finger strength and his success was due to technique and tactics, and then he did a Lattice test and it turns out his fingers are *stronger than expected* for the grade he climbs.

These guys, frankly, are out of touch, and I'm pretty sure they're not counting your average gym climber or even typical university outdoor toproper as "real" climbers, which is another whole debate.

Magnus does get outside the climbing bubble a bit, but surprise! Top strength athletes in other sports are also really strong and do alright at climbing. Even then, you reckon Magnus really believes that e.g. his mate Jujimufu can climb 8a, as a 36 year old 240 pound bodybuilder with a hectic schedule?

Sam M wrote:

Yeah, and Dave Macleod said he had "average" finger strength and his success was due to technique and tactics, and then he did a Lattice test and it turns out his fingers are *stronger than expected* for the grade he climbs.

These guys, frankly, are out of touch, and I'm pretty sure they're not counting your average gym climber or even typical university outdoor toproper as "real" climbers, which is another whole debate.

Magnus does get outside the climbing bubble a bit, but surprise! Top strength athletes in other sports are also really strong and do alright at climbing. Even then, you reckon Magnus really believes that e.g. his mate Jujimufu can climb 8a, as a 36 year old 240 pound bodybuilder with a hectic schedule?

I think their point was: That anyone regardless of genetics, who is dedicated, and works hard enough can get there.

I agree that a lot of the super gifted are out of touch, but they’ve also been around a lot of climbers, and in this case, l think they’re right. 

Ive seen people climb an 8a in under 5 minutes

The majority of people who begin climbing will never climb 8a, indoors or out. Sharma climbed Necessary Evil after two years. It’s a milestone on the spectrum of  pure talent vs how hard you want to work.

6.5 years, but you gotta spend two of those years in the 82nd Airborne. Easy peasy dude.

saign charlestein wrote:

Adam Ondra and magnus had a video where they said they thought no matter what the genetics are they thought anyone (if they don’t start too old) can climb 8a if they work hard enough. After that they thought genetics come into play.

I tend to agree with this. 

It's typical for people with good inheritance to ascribe their success to motivation and hard work.

It looks like Adam Ondra, Magnus and "saign charlestein" make the same attribution mistake.

Ricky Harline wrote:

lol after 2 years of climbing 3x a week in a good gym for two years I had onsighted precisely one 6a. A lot of people go faster then that, but then again, a lot of people don't. Seems to depend pretty heavily on how old you are when you get into it. If you're not in your early 20s or younger it seems to be a pretty slow process advancing through the grades for most. 

I'm hoping to climb outdoors at least three times a week for then next ten years and I highly doubt I'll manage to even top rope an 8a in that timeframe. 

OP, interesting video! Well done.

By the time youre strong enough to top rope 8a, you are leading 8a. Took me a hair under 3 years to send one but I am 22.  

It is also a matter of perspective. At most American crags, 8a feels like an elite grade. But, then you go to someplace like Ceuse, and the MEDIAN grade being climbed there on any day between sectors Berlin and Demilune, which includes the Biographie sector and is the most popular stretch of rock, is about 8a+. One feels really small projecting the warmups.