New to trad, how to rap without leaving gear?

Okay I’m going to be honest here. Been sport climbing for 10+ years getting into trad climbing (finally have the disposable income). A lot of climbs have bolts or places to put webbing but how do you rap without leaving gear behind? Alpine climbs, long routes etc. From your personal experience. I haven’t found a trad dad to teach me the ways yet, just doing some easy 5.6 stuff for fun. I know there are ways to sling your rope around rocks, trees and such. What if there are none?

Starting out you will mostly be in trade routes where the methods to rappel are put in place for you. As you advance in trad climbing you may start doing obscurities or backcountry climbs. In those cases often times the answer is you leave gear, which is hopefully just slings on trees or blocks with rappel rings. 

Fortunately often times in trad you don't rappel, which as you can imagine simplifies the problem enormously. ...well until your "chill third class walk off" turns into a nightmare epic, but you'll learn about that soon enough =p 

Many crag trad routes have nice bolted rap lines or walk offs.

Some alpine trad routes have nice bolted rap lines. Or walk offs.

Many alpine trad routes have slung horns, trees, pinches, boulders etc. on the rap route. You either rap off what's there or you add/replace with your own cord/webbing. Or walk off.

The big alpine routes that only few people do may require leaving pieces behind in addition to slinging stuff where you can.

That’s what I was thinking. Hoping there was some secret third thing I was missing. 

Downclimbing

Doing some digging. Seems like most people bring extra carabiners, cordelette or webbing they don’t mind losing for a bail.

Whatever you do, make sure, especially on multi-pitch routes that you have your descent planned out if at all possible.  Even so, you'll likely have to improvise once in a while.

Most of those trad / alpine situations are meant to be walk-off.  In many cases, rapping would add risk, because of loose rock or cliff features that would result in ropes getting stuck.  If you see bolts without chains or cord, sometimes those are just meant to be used as an anchor, but still cleaned and then the route walked off from.

In situations where people do rap, it's not uncommon to come across soft goods (cord or sling) in bolts, with or without a rap ring.  I always climb with some lengths of 6mm knotted cord with me, to be used for ascending the rope in a pinch, but will often change out the old tat (carry a knife) and replace this with my own.  I also typically have a steel rap ring clipped to the back of my harness.  I leave that anytime there isn't one or one is very worn. (I contribute 2-3 a year to anchors).  In some cases where there are chains with a configurations where I think pulling the rope could be an issue, I leave some old biners.  (Over time, aluminum carabiners start to get wear grooves, when you inspect your gear before or after each climbing trip, put a couple of those on the back of your harness as leaver biners.)

I guess the point is, rather than being concerned about leaving gear, consider that it's a small contribution you can make to your own and others safety or convenience.

That’s a good point, I left some lockers on Olympus for exactly that reason. Better to leave a little of my gear for the next group to use and be safe on. 

phylp phylp wrote:

Most of those trad / alpine situations are meant to be walk-off.  In many cases, rapping would add risk, because of loose rock or cliff features that would result in ropes getting stuck.  If you see bolts without chains or cord, sometimes those are just meant to be used as an anchor, but still cleaned and then the route walked off from.

In situations where people do rap, it's not uncommon to come across soft goods (cord or sling) in bolts, with or without a rap ring.  I always climb with some lengths of 6mm knotted cord with me, to be used for ascending the rope in a pinch, but will often change out the old tat (carry a knife) and replace this with my own.  I also typically have a steel rap ring clipped to the back of my harness.  I leave that anytime there isn't one or one is very worn. (I contribute 2-3 a year to anchors).  In some cases where there are chains with a configurations where I think pulling the rope could be an issue, I leave some old biners.  (Over time, aluminum carabiners start to get wear grooves, when you inspect your gear before or after each climbing trip, put a couple of those on the back of your harness as leaver biners.)

I guess the point is, rather than being concerned about leaving gear, consider that it's a small contribution you can make to your own and others safety or convenience.

This^. It's probably worth making a distinction between "multi-pitch" trad and "single-pitch trad." Many multi-pitch trad climbs will end up with a walk off, though not all (thinking about Red Rocks here). Ethics in single-pitch locations will vary widely. J-tree, for example, has a history of purists chopping "convenience anchors" when there's even a remotely feasible scramble down.

Other places are equipped with bolted rap lines just like a sport area. 

phylp phylp wrote:

In situations where people do rap, it's not uncommon to come across soft goods (cord or sling) in bolts, with or without a rap ring.  

In this situation, you should DEFINITELY consider backing up or replacing the softgood before rapping on it. If someone has left cord/webbing with no rap ring, it likely means that they rapped with their rope directly over the soft good and then pulled their rope. This rope-on-webbing/cord friction can and has melted or sawed the softgood enough to severely weaken it. You'll often see a melty patch (but don't rely on the lack of the melty patch). 

You can experiment by taking two short pieces of webbing, handing one to a friend, leaning back, and sawing them back and forth against each other. it doesn't take much to slice them.

Yeah I was listening to the AAC podcast on climbing accidents and a few of them were from people using old soft goods. Even stuff that looked solid.

So have a plan for how to descend, look for routes with a walk off and bring extra softgoods / carabiners. 

Jack Walter wrote:

Doing some digging. Seems like most people bring extra carabiners, cordelette or webbing they don’t mind losing for a bail.

This is very rare and really only applies to long remote or alpine routes.  This isn't really necessary in front-country adventure areas like Yosemite, Red Rocks, etc.

A bit of the dark arts but you could use an Equivocation hitch if you’re bold, broke, and ideally on a short rap to get to a walkoff ledge. But…

Highly recommend just leaving a couple nuts and a cheap biner or slinging a horn/chock stone pinch/solid tree with webbing or a runner. All in all a typical bail kit is like 12 bucks it’s not worth trying to be a cheapskate when you need to get down asap.

Also not sure if anyone’s said but you should 100% know how to ascend a rope efficiently if you’ve rappelled into something impossible to continue down. You’d be surprised how many ppl don’t ever think about that.

Eric D wrote:

This is very rare and really only applies to long remote or alpine routes.  This isn't really necessary in front-country adventure areas like Yosemite, Red Rocks, etc.

Red Rocks: Just last year, Happy Acres, Calico Basin, replaced the sunworn, stiff tat at the rap anchors on top of pillar of Spontaneous Enjoyment, and left new sling and biners. Couple years ago, came to bolts with no rap gear (and they were not rap hangers) in First Creek slab gulley descent. Fixed that up.  Some time ago, replaced worn tat on one of the tree rap anchors on the gulley descent from Lotta Balls Wall.  In CA: Even fixed gear gets groove worn and needs to be replaced. I came across an anchor at Patricia Bowl in Rock Creek last summer with grooves so deep and sharp, I didn't want to put my rope in them even for a rap.  Left biners for my own safety and sent an alert to ASCA on those. So it may be very rare in your experience but I don't find it that rare, personally.

Aiden Nova wrote:

A bit of the dark arts but you could use an Equivocation hitch if you’re bold, broke, and ideally on a short rap to get to a walkoff ledge. But…

Highly recommend just leaving a couple nuts and a cheap biner or slinging a horn/chock stone pinch/solid tree with webbing or a runner. All in all a typical bail kit is like 12 bucks it’s not worth trying to be a cheapskate when you need to get down asap.

Also not sure if anyone’s said but you should 100% know how to ascend a rope efficiently if you’ve rappelled into something impossible to continue down. You’d be surprised how many ppl don’t ever think about that.

Its not clear to me what situation the op is asking about. If its getting off of a completed established route the decent info is normally in the guide unless its totally obvious. If the question is about bailing then there is a high likelihood that you're going to be leaving some gear. I have a stuff sack in my pack with an assortment of funky oddball nuts, sling material, rap rings etc. for such purposes.

I highly recommend Andy Kirkpatrick's  'Down' . Its got lots of tricks for descending and a lot of the ways that you can screw yourselves  while doing the same.

Op got his answer but enjoying everyone’s input. Lots to learn still. 

Beal escaper is handy.

One of the benefits of bringing 2 cordellettes, a very american thing to do for anchors vs the UK way of using the rope, is you have some cord to cut up to leave behind if you need. Can choose the worst carabiners on your alpines to leave behind or carry some cheap and light rap rings... though carabiners are more versatile and often cheaper and lighter. Nuts are cheap. Can always get creative with slinging pinch points, using sturdy rocks as chocks and slinging them, etc... Cams are cheap compared to the value of your life, etc...

In my 10+ years of trad, have only needed to leave behind some cord or webbing in a couple situations... and those were new routing where we completely expected to do so.

Most routes, or sometimes entire walls, will have a dedicated rap line, walk off, or some mix, but one established preferred way to get down.

Canyoneers, a situation where water frequently changes the landscape, very often bring a bunch of extra webbing and quicklinks.

YMMV.

Desert Rock Sports wrote:

One of the benefits of bringing 2 cordellettes, a very american thing to do for anchors vs the UK way of using the rope, is you have some cord to cut up to leave behind if you need. 

My alpine chalk bag is strung on about 5 feet of cord instead of webbing. Makes a great bail anchor if you ever have to do that. 

Andrew Rice wrote:

My alpine chalk bag is strung on about 5 feet of cord instead of webbing. Makes a great bail anchor if you ever have to do that. 

Nice idea. Do you not miss the buckle on the chalk bag, though? Do you have to knot the cord every time you fasten the chalk bag?