Wide and Cushy Approach Shoes

RIP FiveTen Camp Fours...The foam on my otherwise perfect new/old-stock pair has decided to completely disintegrate. What's the closest thing to these now? 

• fits comfortably on wide feet for all day wear
• big blocky tread + sticky rubber suitable for steep pine needles, slabs, log crossings, kitty litter, etc. 
• supportive with lots of impact absorbing cushioning for achy knees

I don't need them to be light or climb 5th class, just good for scrambling with a full pack on at most. LS Boulder X's are getting there, but not quite. TX Guide Leather is too narrow. 

I tried on some Guide Tennies a while back and the  toe box felt pretty wide to me. I use the Scarpa Crux and they’re very comfortable but they have a narrow pointed toebox, which makes them climb decently but not what you’re looking for.

The old style guide tennies, like 2-3 iterations back were pretty wide and they didn’t fall apart like the newer ones do.   I have had luck finding them on EBay and have built up a quiver of the old style by occasionally searching eBay and finding new old stock.   Depending on your size you might have luck doing that.  

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

The old style guide tennies, like 2-3 iterations back were pretty wide and they didn’t fall apart like the newer ones do.   I have had luck finding them on EBay and have built up a quiver of the old style by occasionally searching eBay and finding new old stock.   Depending on your size you might have luck doing that.  

Thanks for the suggestions. I do have an older pair of these and they are wide enough, but the tread is kind of weak when not on rock, and the cushioning leaves a bit to be desired. I'm also a bit hesitant to get old stock shoes after my last experience. Hoping to find something still being made. 

My wide (fore)foot likes the TX4 a lot.

I have a pair of New Balance Hierro Mids (trail runners) and they have just about replaced my approach shoes. They have done very well on a number of Red Rock approaches and descents. I scrambled a peak here last week with 3rd, 4th, and even a short 5.3 section and never felt insecure. I even TR'd 5.7 in them. They are cushy yet sensitive and seem so much more nimble than my old 5.10 guide approach shoes. Vibram megagrip sole so super grippy. They are very comfortable and my arthritic ankle and knees love them. They come in wide sizes. 

I got them for hiking and never would have thought they would perform so well scrambling. 

Hi Brandon,

I have 2e wide feet. I found Altra Olympus 4 to be great for regular approaches and trail running. They have vibram rubber (scarpa/ la sportiva approach shoes). The downside is that you can’t use them to jam in a crack (I’m  developing holes from scrambling). Easy slab/ scrambling is ok. I found a bunch of pairs on sale since there is a newer model.

For reference, Scarpa approach shoes are too narrow. I can tolerate them, but I feel foot pain on long approaches. The advantage for scarpa crux is that I’ve climbed 5.7 slab and crack in them.

I tried on a pair of a new style la Sportiva approach shoes that didn’t hurt out of the box, but usually they do not work for me.

Will

The Flying Dutchman wrote:

My wide (fore)foot likes the TX4 a lot.

I second this. The leather means they break in a lot too, and become very comfortable with time.

Another fan of the TX3 and TX4 (these seem the wider of the two). I just wish they were more durable, both the sole and the lacing. If I'm carrying more than a daypack though, I opt for Garmont Dragontail MNT for more support. You might look at the Garmont Dragontail Tech which have a different sole, and larger volume under the ball of the foot.

The TX3 is probably the widest toe box of any shoe I’ve ever owned!

Had the Camp 4s—two pair.  Loved ‘em.  Wore sackcloth and ashes when they were discontinued.  Been rocking the TX3s past few years.  (Tried the TX4s, which fit the same; just prefer the TX3’s more permeable upper with desert approaches.)  Great shoe, including heavy loads.  Wore them on the approach to The Grand carrying a 45-pound pack.  Also climbed Big Bad Wolf in Calico Basin (p1 5.9, p2-3 5.8) wearing them after I forgot my TCs; TX3s weren’t better than okay on that terrain.  Wish they still came in blue, but at least in orange they’re easy to find.  

I have a pair of TX4s that broke in well and are super comfy, probably too comfy for any real expectation of performance on 5th class rock.  I also had a pair of LaSpo Mutants that fit well with what you want them to do but I had sized them the same as the TX4s and found them to be a much snugger fit than I wanted.  I'd like to try them again in a full size larger than my TX4s.

TX4s and Garmont Dragontails on the list to look at. Has anyone tried the LS TX-Hike line? Though it seems like they're only offered with gore-tex which I'd prefer to avoid. 

Running shoes would definitely be cushy, but I'm not sure they'd have the same level of underfoot support or deep enough lugs for traction off the rock. I'll take a look at some next time I'm in a store though. 

I have a pair of La Sportiva trail running shoes that meet your requirements. Sorry, I don't know the model. And maybe the rubber isn't rock-shoe level of sticky. But they are great approach shoes for what I do, and they have more aggressive lugs on the sole than any true approach shoe.

Brandon R wrote:

TX4s and Garmont Dragontails on the list to look at. Has anyone tried the LS TX-Hike line? Though it seems like they're only offered with gore-tex which I'd prefer to avoid. 

Running shoes would definitely be cushy, but I'm not sure they'd have the same level of underfoot support or deep enough lugs for traction off the rock. I'll take a look at some next time I'm in a store though. 

The LaSpo Mutant has an aggressive lugged pattern and I think it is nearly climbing-shoe-sticky.  They have different soles on different shoes.  It really felt like an approach shoe disguised as a runner much more than the other way around to me.  They also don’t have a lot of midsole cushion which reinforces the approach shoe feel.  I think it was a more sensitive climbing shoe than the TX4s for me based only on fit.  The lugs make it more squirmy than the TX4 on hard slab.

Jason4Too wrote:

The LaSpo Mutant has an aggressive lugged pattern and I think it is nearly climbing-shoe-sticky.  They have different soles on different shoes.  It really felt like an approach shoe disguised as a runner much more than the other way around to me.  They also don’t have a lot of midsole cushion which reinforces the approach shoe feel.  I think it was a more sensitive climbing shoe than the TX4s for me based only on fit.  The lugs make it more squirmy than the TX4 on hard slab.

Agreed, I love the mutants for loose over hardpack conditions (very common where I live now), the rubber is quite sticky. When I'm putting in mileage on variable trail and lots of clean rock, I prefer the ultra-raptors. I've been using them as my primary hiking shoe for over a decade and like many here have built up a collection when on sale. That was a good thing until just this year Sportiva released a wide model of the ultra raptor. The sportiva foot last for the Raptor (tempo I think?) runs narrow so I end up a size bigger (47 or 12.5/13) than when I'm in shoes which I can get widths (New Balance 11.5 4E). I'm looking forward to getting to try on the new wide model at some point. I'd consider the Raptors more of a running/hiking shoe that approaches well, than an approach shoe that hikes well. I have done some easy slab in them (5.3) and they are nowhere near as confidence inspiring as approach shoes when in 5th class, but they hold their own in 3rd/4th. 

The Scarpa Mescalito Planet has a wider toe box than the LS TX4 and has the same Megagrip rubber. The Mescalito is made in Romania, whereas the LS approach and running shoes are made in our friendly rival and abuser of the environment and human rights, China. Yes, the US has a long way to improve in those departments, but China is vastly worse. 

Gunkiemike wrote:

I have a pair of La Sportiva trail running shoes that meet your requirements. Sorry, I don't know the model. And maybe the rubber isn't rock-shoe level of sticky. But they are great approach shoes for what I do, and they have more aggressive lugs on the sole than any true approach shoe.

My current shoes, love them! But if you have wide feet is a no-go shoe. They run narrow. Some models have a wide version or the + sign added to the size which means is a wider size than the one without the +. Ultra Raptor & Mutant are the models that offer a wide version. You can actually climb with these shoes including the Bushido (very narrow), I have up to grade 5.8/5b/VI-. 

The new TX4 R is exactly what you describe - chunky sticky rubber lug sole, super supportive (though in a stiff arch support way rather than a pillowy cushioned way; I find this better for all-day hiking with a heavy load anyway); almost comically wide, much wider than the standard TX4 or the TX Guide. They aren’t terribly technical and don’t win any ultralight prizes but they’re durable and comfortable as heck with plenty of stickiness for scrambling and 5.easy climbing. Be prepared to go down a Euro size or two from your regular street shoe size. lasportivausa.com/tx4-r.html

Well I found the TX4 R the opposite to what you described; snugger and a stiffer outsole. They are a bit narrower than the TX4 but not that much. 

Maybe is the female version what you referred to. 

I have had the same struggle finding a replacement for my old FiveTen Camp Fours.

I prolonged them quite a bit by gluing the soles back on (a half dozen times or so). If you want to give that a shot, clean well, apply contact cement to both sides, allow it to dry (longer than you might think), THEN press the two side together to form a bond. My first couple repairs lasted for six months each, but as the foam has broken down more, the repairs have become less and less effective.

But yeah, the foam below the rubber broke down enough now that a replacement was the only choice.

After trying on many pairs, the LS Boulder X is what I have settled on. I haven't worn them in the mountains yet, so fingers crossed. My feet are EE, so the laces going all the way to the toe of the shoe are good to see. They are laced in the same style as the Mythos climbing shoes. Hopefully that will allow good adjustment as they break in.