What Carabiner for Giga Jul? - Elderid Bruce, Edelrid Strike?

I've been using the Elderid Giga Jul with the Black Diamond Gridlock. The assisted braking function worked very well with this carabiner, but the carabiner wore down faster than I expected. I wanted to invest in a steel carabiner to reduce wear, so I purchased the Elderid bulletproof HMS carabiner, however, the assisted braking function didn't work well (I should have done research).

I currently want to purchase the HMS Bruce Steel Screw FG. Has anyone tried this with the Giga Jul, and if so how is the assisted breaking? What are other steel carabiners that work well with the Giga Jul (preferably with features that prevent cross-loading)? Thank you.

I've been using the auto-lock version of the HMS Bruce Steel (Triple FG) with the Giga Jul for ~2 years and it works well for belaying as well as rappeling.  Also bought a second one to use in the gym with my Mega Jul, and it works equally well with that device.  Those carabiners also work well with a Grigri.

Mega Jul is a nearly perfect device--just wish it was a bit smoother when belaying the second in guide mode.

Shawn, I wasn’t aware they made a Triple FG version of the Bruce steel, I’ve only seen the Bulletproof Triple FG. Where’d you find it?

Christian Hesch wrote:

Shawn, I wasn’t aware they made a Triple FG version of the Bruce steel, I’ve only seen the Bulletproof Triple FG. Where’d you find it?

Here's one on Amazon: https://a.co/d/i6GRt2u

I own all the carabiners listed above and never really liked any of them with the Giga Jul but I really like this one:

https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/carabiners-and-quickdraws/hms-bulletproof-belay-fg

It's the first anti-cross loading belay biner that I don't find annoying to use, it reverse opens onto your belay loop. It's a slider style which means it is really easy to open but I assume it will get sticky (like every slider I have used) and will need to be lubed.

Rexford Nesakwatch wrote:

I own all the carabiners listed above and never really liked any of them with the Giga Jul but I really like this one:

https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/carabiners-and-quickdraws/hms-bulletproof-belay-fg

It's the first anti-cross loading belay biner that I don't find annoying to use, it reverse opens onto your belay loop. It's a slider style which means it is really easy to open but I assume it will get sticky (like every slider I have used) and will need to be lubed.

I have this one but I feel like it doesn’t work super well in the gigajul for the brake assist. I notice quite a bit of creep when belaying the hang dog project sessions. I have had better luck with the beefy metolius steel lockers. https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/steel-locking-carabiners.html

They are super heavy but the autolock/assist works better for me for the rope diameter I’m using. 

Thanks Tim, hadn't seen that one yet. I have a regular Bruce, as well as every other biner discussed here and am a diehard GigaJul user/convert. I have basically accepted that I need to keep 6oz of pressure on the brake strands in order to obtain full lock on the Gigajul, but there are certainly rope+biner combos that will result in full lock (softer ropes, for instance - last week I rapped on two strands of an 8.5 Beal Opera, Giga + HMS Bulletproof Triple FG, and it was full lock, no problem). 

I'm afraid you're just going to have to find a TR anchor that you can easily walk to, fix a line, and play with various combos to obtain the ideal setup. I'm too lazy to do this and honestly don't expect it to be fully hands free but it certainly can be done. Regardless, great device, IMO, just has limitations that must be acknowledged/dealt with. Cheers.

Rexford Nesakwatch wrote:

I own all the carabiners listed above and never really liked any of them with the Giga Jul but I really like this one:

https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/carabiners-and-quickdraws/hms-bulletproof-belay-fg

It's the first anti-cross loading belay biner that I don't find annoying to use, it reverse opens onto your belay loop. It's a slider style which means it is really easy to open but I assume it will get sticky (like every slider I have used) and will need to be lubed.

Does the black plastic thing catch on the belay keeper wire and act like a 2nd gate lock? Or does opening the gate also open the gate keeper wire? Basically does it open as easily as the other Edelrid slide lockers or is it an extra step? 

I originally used a strike slider FG with my gigajul but even after 6 months I never got fully comfortable with the slide mechanism for a belay carabiner. A 2-stage slider would be more confidence inspiring but also defeat the purpose of easy opening. 

K Go wrote:

Does the black plastic thing catch on the belay keeper wire and act like a 2nd gate lock? Or does opening the gate also open the gate keeper wire? Basically does it open as easily as the other Edelrid slide lockers or is it an extra step? 

It's def a bit of a pain, the belay loop keeper is a bit more finicky on this one than the Triple FG. black plastic thing doesn't do anything for gate lock purposes.

Sorry if this is a diversion from the original question, but I have a related issue I wanted to ask experts about. 

Basically, I'm a gigajul fan also (paired with one of several average size round autolock HMS biners), but I have erratic experiences with rope drag during rappel.

Always works great for belaying no matter the rope. Problem is that as my Mammut 9.5 workhorse got fuzzier or w friends' 9.5 ropes, it added so much friction in rappel that I must tilt the brake side rope past 90 degrees or I won't budge, even if I'm in manual mode. This means I can't rig an autoblock on the brake side of the rope like usual, only above the device. Or I can use it in autobrake mode but without a third hand (recognize some will think this is overkill). Has anyone else run into this issue? Is there a good solution without going to smaller rope? Perhaps thinner profile biner? Thanks for any thoughts.

As pertains to OPs question, my limited (1.5 years) experience is that the friction is VERY different depending on rope + biner combo. And even maybe on terrain angle/features slightly. And your experience may change as your rope fuzzes up. Are folks who have posted suggestions always using < 9 mm ropes? OP may want to specify rope size pairing.

Jim Otterstein wrote:

Basically, I'm a gigajul fan also (paired with one of several average size round autolock HMS biners), but I have erratic experiences with rope drag during rappel.

Always works great for belaying no matter the rope. Problem is that as my Mammut 9.5 workhorse got fuzzier or w friends' 9.5 ropes, it added so much friction in rappel that I must tilt the brake side rope past 90 degrees or I won't budge, even if I'm in manual mode. This means I can't rig an autoblock on the brake side of the rope like usual, only above the device. Or I can use it in autobrake mode but without a third hand (recognize some will think this is overkill). Has anyone else run into this issue? Is there a good solution without going to smaller rope? Perhaps thinner profile biner? Thanks for any thoughts.

Jim, if you use the Gigajul in assisted braking mode, you should not need to use a third hand in normal rappeling circumstances.  The assisted braking mode is the third hand.  If you prefer to use a prusik/autoblock [and there may be personal (don't fully trust the assisted braking mechanism) or situational (rappel route forces you to swing into the wall and may engage the handle to override assisted braking) reasons for this], then you shouldn't also use the device in assisted braking mode.  I am no engineer, but my guess is that that a prusik/autoblock in the usual place (by the groin) is pulling the rope down and back almost like a fireman belay, which is making for such a difficult rappel when you are in assisted braking mode trying to lift up the handle/lever to lower.

So EITHER use the assisted braking functionality of the Gigajul OR use a prusik/autoblock in unassisted braking mode, but don't do both.  

Oh, and I use a fuzzy 9.8 mm rope.

I've rappeled probably over a hundred times with the Gigajul in assisted braking mode without a prusik/autoblock and have never had a problem.  And I have frequently gone hands free (after I test the system) to undo knots in the rope, untangle the rope from bushes, etc.  But that's just me and am anticipating the usual Mountain Project "You're Gonna Die" responses!

Jim,

I have not had this experience when rappelling with the Mega Jul + thicker ropes and the device in manual mode.

The position of my hands are set so my right hand is closer to the device and is pushing out to open the device and my left hand is above my 3rd hand minding it down and working as the break when needed. The rope is between my legs most times. I use an autoblock as my third hand with 3 wraps. 

Jim, you could try flipping the gigajul upside down while rappelling in manual mode (with a 3rd hand) so the brake teeth are pointing up and not really touching the rope. I'm not sure if edelrid endorses this, but that's how me and some others rappel on other toothed tube devices as it reduces the friction slightly and allows for a smoother rappel. Remember there are tube devices with NO teeth at all so this isn't a new concept, but idk if edelrid endorses using it like this. They do say that if you load the device backwards on accident then it still works as a manual braking device. 

Otherwise rappeling in the brake assist mode has been pretty jerky for me on ropes >9.5, especially if fuzzy. The gigajul geometry just doesnt like fat ropes.

Here's the inverted manual rappel setup, shown with only one strand of rope and no 3rd hand. You might need a larger HMS carabiner to make sure the thumb loop wire doesn't interfere.