Is Rock Climbing a Discipline/Art -or just a Sport. Discuss.....

I consider it a discipline.(Techniques requiring physical and mental acuity, self control and order)

But does climbing bridge the gap between Sport and Art?

Yes

Ok a bit more- for me it’s more sport, but also more meaningful than just a casually practiced sport. I see it on a continuum of activities that allow me to commune with nature, where scrambling or hiking or other activities also play a role. When the climbing is at a high level and more is on the line though, Steve House made a pretty good argument that it has elements of an art. He talks about this on a recent enormocast; worth a listen 

When sport is particularly beautiful, we use words like "art" and "artistry" to describe it, and we might describe particularly skilled athletes as "artists." But just because a sporting endeavor can also be beautiful and inspiring emotion and awe doesn't mean it's art. 

Take gymnastics (a fairly artistic sport). They're not being scored on their outfits or the little dance flourishes they perform while they compose themselves. They're getting scored on flips, twists, balance, and sporting achievement.

It's a sport. It can be beautiful. It can inspire us. When we have a hard time describing physical ability, we often resort to descriptive terms like "art" and "craft" and when those abilities seem particularly calculated and honed, we might say "science".  Adam Ondra can be as calculating and logical as he wants, but he's not a scientist. Likewise, climbers aren't artists.

For many of us I would say it started as simply "a sport" and it quickly transformed itself into a lifestyle and a state of mind. 

I don't see many "activities" that became such a complete subculture, oh yes, maybe swingers ;)
Ps: I don't think it can qualify as an art

Too much of what makes us succeed on routes is is simply because it works, because it’s the easiest way, or because we can’t do it the other way.

Sounds like a personal quest for efficiency, not art.

It’s basically golf.

It's people climbing. 

Some in this thread are demonstrating the neglected art of understanding the fluidity of language to describe things.

Art, as a word, has broader meanings than just big A Art. Little a art usually is fuzzier, like your dog mastering the art of begging. 

When I'm watching a really good climber? I often find it beautiful, and akin to a dancer. No, it's not Art, but it is someone who is skilled, and therefore mastering their art.

And, btw, whoever said gymnasts aren't scored on outfits or dance moves is simply wrong. All of that counts, very much so. Sticking the landing, arms in the air, hands just so, head held high...will all affect scores.

Best, Helen

Boulders are a sculpture that is activated by the body. An expression generally envisioned by the FA whom designates it a work, and everyone repeating the work continues its life as a living artwork - but everyone is free to express themselves in their own way on it. This form of expression becomes individual style. Climbers might as well be practicing an advanced form of dance. Historical art analogue include works like Trisha Brown's pieces with dancers moving along the walls of the gallery or down the sides of buildings aptly titled Man Walking Down the Side of a Building. Also Matthew Barney's early Drawing Restraint works come to mind: attaching weights and harnesses to himself to make the act of drawing as difficult as possible (and who interestingly was on the Yale Football team before moving into art.)

Matthew Barney's early work. Might as well be a modern comp route. 

(yes.. I went to art shcool.)

It can be all those things; activity, discipline, life's-calling, etc. We humans can make sport out of just about anything as after all, sport is about mock combat, competition and gambling, all human vices that can't be attributed to climbing itself. Same for art. We can find beauty in the complex fluid geometry of movement, we can find beauty in the images, sounds, smells, comradrie, even plain ole love.

Mostly climbing is just climbing. Some of us huff and puff other things into it, like we might blow up a balloon to make bigger than it is on it's own. Climbers breathe much into climbing, thus inflating it's importance in their lives. Who am I to discount that?

Old lady H wrote:

And, btw, whoever said gymnasts aren't scored on outfits or dance moves is simply wrong. All of that counts, very much so. Sticking the landing, arms in the air, hands just so, head held high...will all affect scores.

Best, Helen

You're right, I phrased it poorly. I didn't mean the poise of the landings, I meant more the little flourishes they do between runs on the floor routines. Are those scored? Like the actual bits of dance between the gymnastics. And surely no one is getting point deductions because the judges don't like the color of their leotard?

Perhaps I should have said that, while there is an artistic element to scoring in gymnastics, the large bulk of the score is execution of physical feats.

I think most people here have too narrow a definition of art. Anything that uses creativity to produce novel experience could be considered art. I think climbing could often be considered both (except sport climbing, which is neither). I think whether it is a sport also varies individually and mostly depends on whether there is an inherent aspect of competition against others or oneself.

It’s hard to say, but I’ve always thought that this Mike Tyson quote could apply to climbing:

“I'm not an athlete, don't call me an athlete. How can you compare me with Billie Jean King or Magic Johnson? They're athletes. Athletes have careers. Athletes have to prepare. At any moment, I'm ready. I never liked sports. Sports are only social events. I'm a warrior, a missionary. What I do is an obsession. If I wasn't in boxing, I'd be breaking laws, that's my nature.”

Its whatever you want it to be.

Is bolting an art? Cue 200 responses in 2 days

Hobby, activity, and lifestyle are the three words I would chose before art, discipline, or sport.

Sport means competition, and only a tiny minority of us are competitive climbers. For them it’s a sport. Sort of like beach volleyball. For select few it’s a sport. For the rest it’s a fun thing to do with a few friends on a beach.

Art implies uniqueness/creative process/vision. Maybe route-setters and FAs can claim some creative process. But not the climbers who repeat/climb those created problems/routes.

Discipline in my mind is linked to study. Very few climbers do that. Maybe coaches, sport researchers, and those who write training books could describe climbing as discipline. 

Sparkington TheThird wrote:

You're right, I phrased it poorly. I didn't mean the poise of the landings, I meant more the little flourishes they do between runs on the floor routines. Are those scored? Like the actual bits of dance between the gymnastics. And surely no one is getting point deductions because the judges don't like the color of their leotard?

Perhaps I should have said that, while there is an artistic element to scoring in gymnastics, the large bulk of the score is execution of physical feats.

Yes, the dance moves are scored also. That's the connecting part to the skills. And yes, if the judge thought the outfit wasn't up to standards, that would go against you. Hair ribbons, etc. It's meant to also be very artistic, for women at least. You can technically execute the moves ....but do so ungracefully and it'll cost you. Even the tiny hand positions are important.

Most of the apparatus have specific requirements, as well, including the grace moves. Acrobatic passes, dance bits, getting on the floor/beam, spins, all sorts of stuff. Yes, mostly being very skilled technically is the main thing....but the rest matters, to get the highest score. 

Scoring has changed over the years, but that's still the basic thing. Technique, power, and beauty. Figure skating even more so. Do stupendously difficult things precisely....and make it look beautiful and effortless.

Kinda like some climbers, eh?

Best, H.

Climbing is a gem.
There are many facets.... and all are on the same stone.

its a way of life for some and its just a sport for others.. 

Lena chita wrote:

Hobby, activity, and lifestyle are the three words I would chose before art, discipline, or sport.

Sport means competition, and only a tiny minority of us are competitive climbers. For them it’s a sport. Sort of like beach volleyball. For select few it’s a sport. For the rest it’s a fun thing to do with a few friends on a beach.

Art implies uniqueness/creative process/vision. Maybe route-setters and FAs can claim some creative process. But not the climbers who repeat/climb those created problems/routes.

Discipline in my mind is linked to study. Very few climbers do that. Maybe coaches, sport researchers, and those who write training books could describe climbing as discipline. 

I agree with much of this. The discipline part is a bit hazy, for me, however. Is a discipline and being disciplined two different things? The latter being more academic? 

I'd add, it's also a way of life and a means to live, for some people; those who climb for food.

It's a hobby or pastime. It vaguely drifts towards a sport if I try hard.

Climbing is stuff