GriGri+ vs. Standard GriGri for soloing?

Good Morning All!

I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on using the GriGri+ vs standard GriGri for soloing a wall?

The standard GriGri is 25 grams lighter, but does anyone sees advantages to the features that the GriGri+ offers for soloing?

I'm also wondering which type of carabiner you all recommend for attaching the GriGri to the harness? In the past (a long time ago) I used a big, heavy steel carabiner, but now I'm considering something lighter that helps eliminate cross loading risk, like the BD Gridlock. Do you all think the potential to reduce cross loading outweighs the loss in strength compared to a steel biner?

Thanks for your thoughts caballeros!

IMOH you’re better off consulting the Facebook Lead Rope Solo Climbing group for this type of question.

The facebook LRS group is not really good for any discussion at all.  That place is a shit show.

I am by no means a real soloist- honestly I like to talk too much for that game.. but I’ve done a bit- and this is the set-up I like the best.  Original GriGri and a petzl triangle maillion.. for me the old GriGri feeds better than the new GriGri.. I’ve used the new version paired with a Petzl Frieno Biner for short fixing- and the old GriGri feeds smoother.. I assume that Can all be manipulated by changing the rope as well.. 

Good Morning Tree! The BD Gridlock carabiner (in the magnetron version, which is no longer made) is what Brent Barghan uses with an unmodified 3rd generation grigri, as described in his thoughtful blog post on lead rope soloing. Barghan in the same post also describes a clever way to manage the cache loops, which I use. 

Alternatively, the DMM Ceros, similar to the Gridlock but with some additional anti-crossloading features, comes in a version with a triple-action auto-locking collar, which is a nice safety feature. 

If you're using thicker ropes as most are want to do when soloing big walls then Quinn is absolutely right, nothing will feed better than a gen 1 grigri. 

If you are going to be using true backup knots tied to your harness then a carabiner is fine. If, however, you desire to go backup knot free and rely only on trailing stopper knots than having the device on a quicklink becomes mandatory. The quicklink will be stronger than your carabiners you're considering while not being nearly as heavy as your steel carabiner. Also it will be so strong that crossloading will be irrelevant as it will break when crossloaded at forces greater than can be achieved in lead falls. 

I disagree that the FB group isn't useful-- I am constantly sharing knowledge I learned in that group with clueless rope soloists I meet in person who don't know any of the modern tactics that make LRS much easier and safer which are predominantly shared in that group. They won't have much of use with regards to big wall stuff, but it's a great place for the fundamentals. 

It is indeed a place full of drama llamas, but so is this place. 

A thin rope will back and forward feed on its own through an old Grigri quite a bit. Your rebelays and back up knots will have to be well balanced. Be aware that in a fall the Grigri can be caused to stay open and not catch you. Be ready for that and not do something stupid like grab the rope.  

Mark Hudon wrote:

Be ready for that and not do something stupid like grab the rope.  

How could we possibly do that? When we’re desperately trying to hold on to our untethered Aiders!!!!! 

Quinn Hatfield wrote:

How could we possibly do that? When we’re desperately trying to hold on to our untethered Aiders!!!!! 

Hahahahaha!

Thanks for the comments everyone. Good stuff.

Seems like an original gen1 grigri is as hard to find as a silent partner these days, so I'll either be using the new standard grigri or the grigri+. I have both, so I'll go test them and see if there is any noticeable difference when it comes to rope slippage and the catch. I'm climbing on a 10.5 Beal Top Gun, and I'm thinking the grigri+ might perform better. We'll see. And given that I'm a back up knot freak, it sounds like the BD Gridlock will be fine.

@Quinn - I like the look of your setup with the petzl triangle maillion, but what is the fuss-factor every time you want to take your grigri off to change use..hauling, rapping, etc?

Tree Trujillo wrote:

Thanks for the comments everyone. Good stuff.

Seems like an original gen1 grigri is as hard to find as a silent partner these days, so I'll either be using the new standard grigri or the grigri+. I have both, so I'll go test them and see if there is any noticeable difference when it comes to rope slippage and the catch. I'm climbing on a 10.5 Beal Top Gun, and I'm thinking the grigri+ might perform better. We'll see. And given that I'm a back up knot freak, it sounds like the BD Gridlock will be fine.

@Quinn - I like the look of your setup with the petzl triangle maillion, but what is the fuss-factor every time you want to take your grigri off to change use..hauling, rapping, etc?

When you're in the valley shoot me a message if you want to try out my LRS system. I'd even be willing to let you borrow the rig for a bit if you end up liking it. It saves a lot of time over the standard systems used in big wall soloing such as what you're using. Don't get me wrong, your system is super good enough and 100% bomber, but if you want to try out the kinds of slick rigs the kids are using these days and hang out with the punteriest punter on MP then hit me up. Who knows-- you might just like the rig. =) 

Hey Tree. Try using a micro trax, to manage rope balance. With your gri-gri Slick!

Tree Trujillo wrote:

Thanks for the comments everyone. Good stuff.

Seems like an original gen1 grigri is as hard to find as a silent partner these days, so I'll either be using the new standard grigri or the grigri+. I have both, so I'll go test them and see if there is any noticeable difference when it comes to rope slippage and the catch. I'm climbing on a 10.5 Beal Top Gun, and I'm thinking the grigri+ might perform better. We'll see. And given that I'm a back up knot freak, it sounds like the BD Gridlock will be fine.

After buying a used Gri gri 2 (to replace a long gone gen 1) I was instantly disappointed with it.  It was flimsy and wasn’t compatible with the thick ropes.  I’ve always owned10.5mm to 11mm ropes and had recently bought an 11mm Blue Water Enduro.  I needed a device that I was familiar with, that I trust, and most importantly, that is compatible with 11mm ropes.  So it was immediately pretty clear that I needed to find another original Grigri to buy.  
Unsurprisingly PTP Pete mentions in Hooking Up that he has hoarded multiples of them, just in case. 

  Ebay is a good source for them.  A surprising number have little to no use.  They tend to be less desirable to most which is great for keeping the prices low.

Tree Trujillo wrote:

@Quinn - I like the look of your setup with the petzl triangle maillion, but what is the fuss-factor every time you want to take your grigri off to change use..hauling, rapping, etc?

 Not too bad.. you just close it finger tight- so it should spin right open.. I for sure carry a small pocket knife with pliers just in case it tightens up. 

I think my system is more geared towards “aid walls” with minimal free climbing.. for sure there are tons of mods and outright different systems- that make things feed better for free climbing and moving faster- but for aid focused walls- I like the simplicity.. 

all this assumes you’re using an appropriately sized rope for your device (I like a 10.2 in a GriGri 1). Also you’ll need a system for preventing back feeding- kleimheist prussics or something- and you’ll want to tie a single hard backup to a full strength point.. 

I generally Aid Solo with a continuous loop and solo tag bag, so all the various systems of stopper knots, loops, MicroTrax etc aren’t really viable for this system 

also- as far as the Maillon- on an aid wall you’re doing what? 2? 3? 4 pitches a day.. I put it on at the start of the pitch and take it off at the top.. I rap with a Frieno carabiner . so time spent on opening/closing the maillon is minimal.. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

When you're in the valley shoot me a message if you want to try out my LRS system. I'd even be willing to let you borrow the rig for a bit if you end up liking it. It saves a lot of time over the standard systems used in big wall soloing such as what you're using. Don't get me wrong, your system is super good enough and 100% bomber, but if you want to try out the kinds of slick rigs the kids are using these days and hang out with the punteriest punter on MP then hit me up. Who knows-- you might just like the rig. =) 

I would be interested in picking your brain a bit about your system if you wouldn’t mind.  My system is  primitive and definitely has room for improvement.  

When I started LRS, the choice was between the Gri Gri 2 and the Gri Gri plus.  I chose the plus because it has this smooth little rounded edge where the live strand feeds from (seen on the left side of this photo):

Now, the Gri Gri 3 (aka "standard" current Gri Gri) has the same smooth tab as the plus.  The "toprope" mode on the plus has no use in LRS, so I don't think there's any advantage to the Gri Gri plus for LRS anymore.  I have not held a Gri Gri 3 in my hands or climbed with it, so there might be some difference I'm not aware of.

Choice of attachment carabiner is very personal.  I use a steel triple-locker (bombproof, even if crossloaded) with rubber stoppers holding it from crossloading (keeps everything aligned properly for feeding) attached through my hard points (I like the orientation of the device this way and it sits at the right height) and trailing jamming backup knots (acceptable given my choice of attachment carabiner) on a cache loop managed by a micro trax.  Small loop of cord through drilled hold in the gri gri attached to a chest harness to hold it upright for smooth feeding.  Really, you're gonna have to pick a way that makes sense to you (provided you have an adequate supply of sense).  The "best" way to do this particular activity doesn't really exist; there are a lot of trade offs.

A general piece of advice for all soloing systems: they're complicated, and hidden failure modes abound.  There will be weird and unexpected things that will happen to defeat your device.  You will not be able to predict all of them.  Redundancy is more important in these systems than it is in other aspects of our sport.  

Brian R wrote:

I would be interested in picking your brain a bit about your system if you wouldn’t mind.  My system is  primitive and definitely has room for improvement.  

Never have to twist my arm to talk LRS; I'm a huge nerd for that shit. Happy to talk about it over email, phone, or in person 

And holy shit outstanding LRS explanation, Sam. (I could have explained as much in twenty far worse paragraphs =p)

Thanks again for all the comments and offers to discuss further if needed.

For future readers, I just dug up this GriGri+ post from 2017. (I'm slowly reading my way backwards through the 34 pages of archives).

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/113181278/grigri-solo-aidlead-climb-setting

As pointed out in the post above, I suspected the toprope setting on the GriGri+ might reduce the risk of the device possibly not locking up in a fall as others have reported with the standard GriGri, although with the consequence of having to manually feed the device more frequently. I'm looking forward to actually testing this device out.

abandon moderation wrote:

I ended up buying the El Mudo, which I've found to be the better device for LRS. The only thing I don't like is that it's very heavy, but the rope feeding and general security of the device more than makes up for it I think.

Pretty cool!!

Love to see your setup and hear your reviews!!

Are you using it with the Yomi? Or standard backup knots? 

I've soloed one big wall ( the prow up to tapir when it began to dump )

The Grigri plus sucks.

The original has less moving parts and is more burly.

I do exactly as Pptp describes.

Grigri on a mallion, no string holding it upright.. knots every 20 feet or so.

A. B. wrote:

I've soloed one big wall ( the prow up to tapir when it began to dump )

The Grigri plus sucks.

The original has less moving parts and is more burly.

I do exactly as Pptp describes.

Grigri on a mallion, no string holding it upright.. knots every 20 feet or so.

The GG+ is getting popular with LRS. People are using it in TR mode held upright. It's now Yann Camus' favorite LRS device along with the SP which is saying a lot because I don't think anyone has as much experience on as many different devices as that dude. 

This all being said I hate leading on Grigris are refuse to use them myself. Some are moving to a GG+ with a Petzl ASAP instead of backup knots... And it's pretty freaking slick. Almost makes me want to get the system to try it out.