It’s just a matter of time before you’re seriously injured

I’ve heard this philosophy before, coming from climbers and other athletes regularly exposed to objective risk. I can’t decide if I agree with it. What do y’all think?

I agree on the injured part, but I would disagree on the word "seriously" part. 

Completely depends on what risk probability AND consequence of that risk that you’re exposing yourself to IMO:

• Alpine environments where there are objective hazards like weather and rockfall?
• Trad climbing where a marginally-placed piece could rip?
• A sport crag that’s safely bolted, has bombproof rock, new hardware, and has no overhead hazard?
• The climbing gym where most hazards are mitigated by the risk management team, but your belayer might drop you one day?
• Bouldering and finally twist an ankle after falling on pads x10000 times?

seriously injured? my brother in the arcane arts

I do not even intend to die

By many people's definitions, I have been seriously injured at least 4 times from climbing but I was able to eventually ully recover. That is not in the same category as a TBI, becoming paralyzed, losing a limb or having permanently altered, decreased function. The later is certainly not inevitable. 

Brys Jung wrote:

I’ve heard this philosophy before, coming from climbers and other athletes regularly exposed to objective risk. I can’t decide if I agree with it. What do y’all think?

Objectively, this isn't true. If the premise is that all climbers will be seriously injured eventually (due to climbing), that is the sorts of statement that can be disproven by counterexample. And there are many many counterexamples, of climbers who had long and fulfilling climbing careers with no serious injuries or accidents.

Risk is inherent in climbing. I know that climbing rocks serves no purpose, and sometimes question what led me to this place when I am cruxing out in a bad fallzone. And yet I keep climbing, because it beats dying with a TV remote in one hand and a pint of ice cream in the other.

No major injuries yet, but I have certainly had some close calls.

Disagree.

I have ~ 1500 days on rock over 40 years, mostly trad. No serious injuries.

I have one debilitating injury from coaching 10 year olds at soccer. 

Cancer in remission (genetics).

One somewhat debilitating illness that is a mystery.

 Climbing gave me so much and took very little. Certainly I have been lucky, but mostly I have been methodical and thorough. I have climbed hard routes and scary routes and a few very dangerous routes.  

Every time I set off on a climb the clock starts over. I never think “oh, too many lucky days it’s going to catch up with me soon?” 

It’s just a matter of time before you’re seriously injured?

No. It's just a matter of time before you die, though.

OFF BELAY!

It’s not how many breaths you take, but how many moments take your breath away.

I absolutely disagree with this 100%  with the exception of High altitude mountaineering and bouldering. Bouldering you will trash you ankle , foot or knee sooner  rather than later. High altitude mountaineering YGD. trad Sport and ice ,even alpine in the lower 48 your chances of getting hurt are far less than working construction or skiing. heck even driving is at least as dangerous as climbing. popping a pully tendon does not count. 

The most likely injuries are tears in ligaments and tendons, many of them far more permanent than broken bones, and can happen 6 inches off the ground.

abandon moderation wrote:

I've always like this:

You’ve got two jars. One jar is luck, the other is experience. When you first start climbing the experience jar is empty and the luck jar is full of coins. Each time you get lucky a coin comes out of the luck jar and goes into the experience jar. At some point your jar of lucky coins is going to be empty, and experience is all you have left to keep you safe. Unfortunately no one knows when their luck jar will be empty...

Personally I've pulled more out of my luck jar than I think is fair, and I've also seen others run out of their luck jar unfairly early. Nothing is guaranteed, but if you keep taking risks (eg climbing) certainly the odds continue to stack up against you.

Isn’t this a Mark Twight ripoff? In any case, I like it, and would add that if you make it through your twenties, you’ve got it made:)  

A few Japanese climbers died in a freak avalanche on the West Butt a couple weeks after I was there. I’ve done enough motorcycling and road biking to kill or maim myself many times over, yet here I am 49 and no worse for wear.
Who knows?! Just keep on keepin’ on and try to be careful.
Oh, KNOCK ON WOOD! 

Kevin DeWeese wrote:

Most quotes attributed to Mr Clemens are generally assumed to not originate from him. 

Who knew that Twight = Twain.  Amazingly I learn something new every time I come here

What is your definition of “serious injury”?

I have been seriously injured while climbing, more then once. None of them happened in circumstances that would be mentioned in an Accident forum.

~2006 took a fall while bouldering in the gym. Not a very high fall at all. And that was the problem. I came off of a twisting move, I was horizontal when I fell, and fell on a mat, maybe 5 feet, tops. But because I fell in a twist, I ruptured a disk. Didn’t require surgery, healed just fine. But spinal injury certainly falls under “major” category. And low-ball bouldering indoor is something kids do at birthday parties, that’s how “not dangerous” it is, in everyone’s perception.

~2012 was meniscus tear repear surgery. Climbing-related. No big fall or scary stories. Just a drop-knee.

~2016 was shoulder surgery. SLAP tear, and rotator cuff. Also climbing-related

I don’t think I can count various finger injuries, elbow tweaks, etc. those would be minor, presumably. 

Great discussion all. 

To paraphrase the greats... I'm not afraid of dying in the mountains, I am afraid of not.  

"It's just a matter of time until....." 

All sorts of things. That's (sorta) true for a group in general, predictors, but not necessarily for any particular individual.

At any given moment, you're particular "odds" are zero or 100 percent. You'll only know in hindsight.

Maybe you do everything right every time and eat it anyway, or not, and sail through. We all know good people who've died and dunderheads that blunder on through a long life.

Now, do we rely on that?

That, is where we each decide what's worth mitigating, and what we don't bother about. Those decisions change with time and circumstances. My old lady body will never take up mtn biking or skiing, for example, as that would be a dumb decision, and a time waste too. As a mom, I made all sorts of decisions for my child....all modified over time.

So no, I don't think it's inevitable, just a matter of time, far from it. I'm definitely stuck with getting older, but I sure as heck can fight it plenty, or at least make choices over time.

It probably IS pretty likely that, the longer you are in this, the more likely you will have lost people to it. But that's pure numbers amassed over time, not time itself changing the odds.

For myself? Be prudent about stuff, sure, but enjoy the life I've got left. Be as alive as possible....until I'm not.

H 

Chouinard used to say there are old climbers and there are bold climbers, but not both. 

Jumping off boulders can do a job on your back. I can attest. I also tore the right bicep off the forearm back in 1987 when I turned 50. Arthritic shoulders can happen as well. Have fun while young.

Yup arthritis in shoulders, hip and ankle. Hurt myself worse at work. Does breaking the same bone on the same leg in different places, once at work and once skiing count?

Injured, probably, seriously? Ive climbed for 55 years without serious injury. I take safety seriously and stay away from climbs and situations that involve excessive objective dangers.