Butt Biscuits: Cultivating Wag-Bag Culture

So we meet again, climbing brothers and sisters.

 Another summer is upon us, and with it comes a fresh batch of giant, disgusting poops at the bases of our climbs, the corners of our parking lots, and the edges of our boulder fields. While we'd love to tell ourselves that 'shit happens', after the 4th, 5th and 6th giant piles of shit in unforgivable locations we start to wonder: What can be done? How do we stop what is slowly and surely becoming the single most tasteless habit of our community? 

We are past the days of a rare turd found behind a rock, or an occasional pile of TP discreetly shrouded by a fresh layer of lazily strewn dirt. We are in an era where it is not uncommon to find full-blown mud patties at the base of our route or under the cheat-block of our local test piece, and it's becoming more common every year. Building bathrooms is important, but they can never be enough, or close enough. 

What we need is a shift in the mindsets of climbers, new and experienced. Poop hygiene isn't a good deed, it's a duty. A wag bag isn't a nice thing to bring along, when we remember. It should be a standard piece of gear. With the sheer volume of climbers these days, it's no longer acceptable to pack our bags, hop in the car with our laxative (coffee) in hand, and descend upon the crag under the false pretense that everything will work out. It won't. The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is just about everywhere. 

I love that someone has brought this up.  In the past year, I have worked two separate boulders that had human shit underneath a likely fall area.  One of the boulders was in a small boulderfield and it is often used for a picnic spot for equestrian activity so maybe that perpetrator didn't know what they were doing but the other one was at a very active bouldering area.  Bringing a small shovel or trowel or digging device is standard kit in the backpacking community.  I think wag-bags and hauling your shit out is a better solution given the number of climbers using some of these areas but at least burying it doesn't leave it waiting for the next passerby.  I understand that many people using these areas may be new to outdoorsy activities so they don't understand that human shit doesn't disappear is two or three days making for a nice bit of compost but I agree, this is an issue.

william bullard wrote:

I understand that many people using these areas may be new to outdoorsy activities so they don't understand that human shit doesn't disappear is two or three days making for a nice bit of compost but I agree, this is an issue.

This is definitely a part of it; your average outdoor recreationist doesn't know/doesn't have the right mindset for the ethics to make sense. I had a few hiking #2s before I learned the concept of blue bags during a ski mountaineering course. In retrospect it makes a ton of sense, it's obviously not sustainable if everyone left their (literal) shit behind. Now all my packs have blue bags and one or two of those little travel kleenex pocket/travel packs just in case, call it the 11th essential. 

dog owners seem to have mastered this idea... maybe mountaineers just need to bring our owners to clean up after us?!?  come to think of it, some of us probably ought to be kept on leash as well...

-Haireball

Where's Walden wrote:

So we meet again, climbing brothers and sisters.

 Another summer is upon us, and with it comes a fresh batch of giant, disgusting poops at the bases of our climbs, the corners of our parking lots, and the edges of our boulder fields. While we'd love to tell ourselves that 'shit happens', after the 4th, 5th and 6th giant piles of shit in unforgivable locations we start to wonder: What can be done? How do we stop what is slowly and surely becoming the single most tasteless habit of our community? 

We are past the days of a rare turd found behind a rock, or an occasional pile of TP discreetly shrouded by a fresh layer of lazily strewn dirt. We are in an era where it is not uncommon to find full-blown mud patties at the base of our route or under the cheat-block of our local test piece, and it's becoming more common every year. Building bathrooms is important, but they can never be enough, or close enough. 

What we need is a shift in the mindsets of climbers, new and experienced. Poop hygiene isn't a good deed, it's a duty. A wag bag isn't a nice thing to bring along, when we remember. It should be a standard piece of gear. With the sheer volume of climbers these days, it's no longer acceptable to pack our bags, hop in the car with our laxative (coffee) in hand, and descend upon the crag under the false pretense that everything will work out. It won't. The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is just about everywhere. 

“When you got to go, you got to go.”

            -Tradiban

Tradiban wrote:

“When you got to go, you got to go.”

            -Tradiban

Yes, and it's extremely predictable that you will have to go, so there's no excuse to be unprepared. 

I have a very fond memory of eating breakfast in my buddies van one morning up in hyalite. The dude parked near us opened the other side of his small hatchback, and myself and my two friends saw his bare ass peaking out under the car. Within seconds a soft, unformed, shockingly orange-brown snake emerged onto the bare asphalt. Without wiping he got back in his car. (head was below the roofline the whole time, presumably for stealth) He slithered into his front seat, driving away. Absolutely amazing!

These days it’s so busy up there one probably couldn’t “get away” with such an act. 

Where's Walden wrote:

Yes, and it's extremely predictable that you will have to go, so there's no excuse to be unprepared. 

For some of us it comes fast and hard, and there might not be time to follow all the “rules”.

Where's Walden wrote:

So we meet again, climbing brothers and sisters.

 Another summer is upon us, and with it comes a fresh batch of giant, disgusting poops at the bases of our climbs, the corners of our parking lots, and the edges of our boulder fields. While we'd love to tell ourselves that 'shit happens', after the 4th, 5th and 6th giant piles of shit in unforgivable locations we start to wonder: What can be done? How do we stop what is slowly and surely becoming the single most tasteless habit of our community? 

We are past the days of a rare turd found behind a rock, or an occasional pile of TP discreetly shrouded by a fresh layer of lazily strewn dirt. We are in an era where it is not uncommon to find full-blown mud patties at the base of our route or under the cheat-block of our local test piece, and it's becoming more common every year. Building bathrooms is important, but they can never be enough, or close enough. 

What we need is a shift in the mindsets of climbers, new and experienced. Poop hygiene isn't a good deed, it's a duty. A wag bag isn't a nice thing to bring along, when we remember. It should be a standard piece of gear. With the sheer volume of climbers these days, it's no longer acceptable to pack our bags, hop in the car with our laxative (coffee) in hand, and descend upon the crag under the false pretense that everything will work out. It won't. The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is just about everywhere. 

The people that give a shit, do so in appropriate places.  Pun intended.  The people that do not cannot be convinced by a MP thread or anything else.  This is ironically evidenced by your need to post this here.  Clearly, it's getting worse, as you describe here: "We are past the days of a rare turd found behind a rock, or an occasional pile of TP discreetly shrouded by a fresh layer of lazily strewn dirt. We are in an era where it is not uncommon to find full-blown mud patties at the base of our route or under the cheat-block of our local test piece, and it's becoming more common every year."

This means that all the threads in the past have had the net result of exactly nothing.  The problem is worse than it ever was.  Surely your forum thread will be the one to turn it all around though.  Your magical words will inspire behavior-changing life decisions and merely because of your words, these selfish, thoughtless persons are just around the corner from turning over a new leaf and becoming thoughtful members of the community.  Well done.  You should post with your real name so that we can bestow upon you all the credit that your earnest urging has earned.

I blame gym culture.

I've had shit on my shoes twice already this year AT THE CRAG! 

Jake Jones wrote:

The people that give a shit, do so in appropriate places.  Pun intended.  The people that do not cannot be convinced by a MP thread or anything else.  This is ironically evidenced by your need to post this here.  Clearly, it's getting worse, as you describe here: "We are past the days of a rare turd found behind a rock, or an occasional pile of TP discreetly shrouded by a fresh layer of lazily strewn dirt. We are in an era where it is not uncommon to find full-blown mud patties at the base of our route or under the cheat-block of our local test piece, and it's becoming more common every year."

This means that all the threads in the past have had the net result of exactly nothing.  The problem is worse than it ever was.  Surely your forum thread will be the one to turn it all around though.  Your magical words will inspire behavior-changing life decisions and merely because of your words, these selfish, thoughtless persons are just around the corner from turning over a new leaf and becoming thoughtful members of the community.  Well done.  You should post with your real name so that we can bestow upon you all the credit that your earnest urging has earned.

Jeez bub

Tradiban wrote:

For some of us it comes fast and hard, and there might not be time to follow all the “rules”.

If you know that then why not at least try and be prepared it comes off as if you just don't give a shit. If there's no time on the front end then at least try to clean up after.

M M wrote:

Jeez bub

Yeah, I know.  Like Walter Sobchak, I'm not wrong, I'm just an asshole.

Tim McCabe wrote:

If you know that then why not at least try and be prepared it comes off as if you just don't give a shit. If there's no time on the front end then at least try to clean up after.

I cover up it up with the rocks I wipe with, what more do you need?

Why don’t you guys just shit without the bag far away, bury it under some dirt, wipe with a rock and go about your business? Maybe wash up with some dirt and hand sanitizer. I do this all the time, and I’m doing fine. People of the past have done this … forever. Some San Franciscan gave me a lecture in the Epi gulley for taking a dump in the sand bar up stream (our rainy year solved the problem of my boom boom buried up there) when he put his wag bag in an old shoe he found, then just left it at the base saying he’s gonna “come back for it” … and I can assure you, he did no such thing. Who was in the right? Who was in the wrong? All I know is I took a fat, natural dump in a natural environment and he left shit and trash. Wag bags are a weird scam in my opinion, and really should only be busted out when you’re literally on the mountain with nowhere to take a shit at. If you’re on the ground, the world is your toilet.

Austin R wrote:

Why don’t you guys just shit without the bag far away, bury it under some dirt, wipe with a rock and go about your business? Maybe wash up with some dirt and hand sanitizer. I do this all the time, and I’m doing fine. People of the past have done this … forever. Some San Franciscan gave me a lecture in the Epi gulley for taking a dump in the sand bar up stream (our rainy year solved the problem of my boom boom buried up there) when he put his wag bag in an old shoe he found, then just left it at the base saying he’s gonna “come back for it” … and I can assure you, he did no such thing. Who was in the right? Who was in the wrong? All I know is I took a fat, natural dump in a natural environment and he left shit and trash. Wag bags are a weird scam in my opinion, and really should only be busted out when you’re literally on the mountain with nowhere to take a shit at. If you’re on the ground, the world is your toilet.

Austin, that is gross. There is too much human traffic in that area for it to decompose fast enough. You are part of the problem.

Neither of you are in the right unless the other person did come back for it.

Even if you are following the rules of burying poop, then you still physically cannot follow the 200’ away from trails and water sources in side the canyon where Epinephrine starts.

Carry wag bags. Use them correctly. Pack them out. Put them in a trash can.

people have been pooping on the ground for a long time and that is okay when it’s spread apart far enough. But in the case of climbing spots that is no longer the case and why this activity needs to change.

For a long time on glaciers, folks threw their turds into the icy depths of crevasses. Turns out we’re making the cleanest water source unsafe to drink from.

If 10 people a day walk out to epinephrine and 1 person poops every other day then we are amassing a huge pile of shit way faster than the environment can make it decompose. The desert doesn’t decompose poop nearly as fast as other environments.

If you’re a Vegas local you should really take care of this place better and know better than that

Alex Fletcher wrote:

Austin, that is gross. There is too much human traffic in that area for it to decompose fast enough. You are part of the problem.

Neither of you are in the right unless the other person did come back for it.

Even if you are following the rules of burying poop, then you still physically cannot follow the 200’ away from trails and water sources in side the canyon where Epinephrine starts.

Carry wag bags. Use them correctly. Pack them out. Put them in a trash can. 

200’ my ass. There’s no more rules when you’re about to shit your pants. Nobody drinks that water, and the animals don’t care. What point is there to the world if I can’t take a dump? I’m not saying everyone, all the time, every time they go there should drop a dump upstream of Epi, but man is it a better choice than leaving a giant plastic/aluminum mess inside an old new balance and then lord how you’re more in tune with the earth than others. I had to shit on top of Epi once and I wasn’t going to put my wag bag in my backpack, that’s fucking disgusting. So I put it in my Nalgene and carried it down like the Olympic torch until I bailed it in the REI trash can. I stand by my statement: if you’re on the ground, far away from a trash can and have no recourse available: shit in the woods like God intended. Reconnect with your ancestors.

Austin R wrote:

Why don’t you guys just shit without the bag far away, bury it under some dirt, wipe with a rock and go about your business? Maybe wash up with some dirt and hand sanitizer. I do this all the time, and I’m doing fine. People of the past have done this … forever. Some San Franciscan gave me a lecture in the Epi gulley for taking a dump in the sand bar up stream (our rainy year solved the problem of my boom boom buried up there) when he put his wag bag in an old shoe he found, then just left it at the base saying he’s gonna “come back for it” … and I can assure you, he did no such thing. Who was in the right? Who was in the wrong? All I know is I took a fat, natural dump in a natural environment and he left shit and trash. Wag bags are a weird scam in my opinion, and really should only be busted out when you’re literally on the mountain with nowhere to take a shit at. If you’re on the ground, the world is your toilet.

you obviously haven't climbed in central/south america...

Birch bark is the best.

We used to sell cups of coffee here via a Keurig.

... We heard about too many multipitch poops and no longer could be complicit in enabling that.