65-70L Alpine(ish) Pack Search

Hello all,

I seeking advice and recommendations for a 60-70 liter pack that is more suited to carrying heavy loads. I find myself in need of a pack in the 65-70L range that could Ideally hold up to 65LBS. I have looked at both traditional packs and UL packs thought I am not a huge fan of some of the UL packs because they lack a frame, and certain adjustments that make heavy loads much more comfortable, and furthermore weight is not of the upmost concern in comparison the comfort of the pack. I have looked at packs like the Chaos from CCW, I like everything beside the lack of frame. Currently I am interested In the Osprey Aether 65 and or the Atmos 65 AG, I understand that they are not Tailored to climbing but they seem to offer great comfort and "breathability" at the cost of weight, and I do like the lifetime warranty. I am still open to some of the more Alpine style packs akin to the Chaos though I don't love the Idea of spending over $350 on a pack.

So, am I looking for a unicorn or does such a thing exist. Any and all suggestions are appreciated. Thanks for reading!

Sorry for another Pack thread

Have you looked at the Osprey Aether Pro. It’s touted as a mountaineering / climbing pack.  I have one and love it. It carries weight really well and is very comfortable, even with heavier loads.
take a look at that one. 

Sunny-D wrote:

Have you looked at the Osprey Aether Pro. It’s touted as a mountaineering / climbing pack.  I have one and love it. It carries weight really well and is very comfortable, even with heavier loads.
take a look at that one. 

Do you happen to know what makes it more of an "alpine" pack other than costing more and cutting features.

I just got off of Denali where I was using a a BD Mission 75. I thought it was a stellar pack for the price.

I regularly carried 60-75lbs with it in training and 50 daily while on the mountain for 2 weeks. I got it because I needed volume but also climbing specific features. It’s very strippable for technical climbing with lighter loads as well. 

Noting my heavy bias on the CCW Chaos....packs properly designed without a frame don't need one. When they are packed to the gills, the bag/foam pad/gear all support the load in tandem so there is no droop. If you have a lighter load and the bag isn't actually filled, the foam pad is more than enough to support the bag shape. I have the 66L size small CCW Chaos and I've had it loaded at 70+ lbs and never suffered due to the pack not being able to carry the weight. I've also used it as a summit pack all cinched up and it was fine. I use it as my cragging bag, winter backpacking/basecamp bag, and everything else in between and it is in excellent shape still. I recently met an old school climber who put up some routes with Randy, the owner, back in the 80s and she was still using her ~40L pack. It looked great. You might be able to find a used Chaos or similar for much cheaper too.

I have larger packs from both McHale and Alpine Luddites.

Both handle weight very well and are light weight.    

Expensive and there's a wait list, but you get exactly what you want.  

McHale 

http://www.mchalepacks.com/ultralight/index.htm

Alpine Luddites:

https://www.alpineluddites.com/

Finn Lanvers wrote:

Do you happen to know what makes it more of an "alpine" pack other than costing more and cutting features.

The fabrics are different, lighter and stronger. I’m in sugar house if you want to check out mine.

Gregory used to make the Makalu pro. It was an amazing pack. Mine went on some amazing trips and I still use it if I need a bigger heavy load carrying  pack.  So if you could find one of those used, it’s great.  My aether was supposed to replace my makalu but it’s a bit smaller.

I’ve seen a ton of the BD mission 75s in Alaska and it looks like a great pack .

All right y'all have broken me, Probably just going to pony up the cash for a dynema pack from either HMG McHale or Alpine Luddites, thanks for the help yall. I am still open to other options for now though.

Posting Here due to the limits is post per day:

Thanks for the alternative view Nate! It is worth stating that I don't plan on going high altitude with the bag, Just for climbing in areas with substantial approaches though the ability to affix crampons and tools is valuable to me.

Finn Lanvers wrote:

All right y'all have broken me, Probably just going to pony up the cash for a dynema pack from either HMG McHale or Alpine Luddites, thanks for the help yall. I am still open to other options for now though.

I’ll be the one who speaks up and says that dyneema packs have rarely been worth their egregious prices in my past experiences.

They are very nice, and most of the people making them are making them well, but they cost 2-3x as much without giving even 1.5x the benefit or quality as similar nylon packs. 

I have a wild things andistina in some dyneema ripstop that is in good shape. Pm me for pictures if you’re interested. That’s one of the OG big light alpine packs if you didn’t already know that. 

NateC wrote:

I’ll be the one who speaks up and says that dyneema packs have rarely been worth their egregious prices in my past experiences.

They are very nice, and most of the people making them are making them well, but they cost 2-3x as much without giving even 1.5x the benefit or quality as similar nylon packs. 

Hi Nate,

"dyneema" covers a wide range of fabrics. the generic fiber, UHMWPE, is used by Dyneema, Specta (honeywell) and Challenge Ultra fabrics. There is  nonwoven Dyneema, fibers held together with glue and extruded, not woven, in packs this is often laminated to a light woven fabric like 150 D polyester,  this is the fabric used by hyperlite and I use it on UL backpacking packs and bike bags only. It's not durable enough for climbing packs. woven UHMWPE fabrics, are extremely durable, far more than a nylon fabric in the same weight . For example the Ultra 800, a fully woven UHMWPE fabric and 11 oz Cordura nylon are the same weight. i can easily slide my shears through Cordura, but need an electric rotary cutter to cut the 800 fabric. Ultra 400 is equal to 500 D Cordura for weight per square yard, but is much harder to cut than 500D cordura. abrasion wise any woven UHMWPE will far outlast Cordura or Ballistics in ASTM testing and real world use. UHMWPE fabrics, unlike nylon, are resistant to UV degradation.

i don't know your past experiences but I have a guess. and despite my praise of woven UHMWPe, there are excellent nylon fabrics available, but not all brands use great fabric. I stick with US made cordura, German made 500D Cordura with TPU laminates,  X pac's nylon fabrics and UHMWPE grid fabrics. Nylon does hold stitching better.

And last, US made packs are expensive. my custom alpine packs are 12-20 hours of work each. the price includes any fabrics listed above except the light Dyneema. and they don't cost 2-3x more than osprey or mystery ranch in the bigger volumes.

cheers

JC

Alpine Luddites

John, please note that I was complimentary about the quality of the sewing of most small pack makers. I wasn't being an asshole, just simply asserting that the value proposition isn't there in my eyes. Especially when giving the OP (who appears to be rather young and new to this) purchasing advice. 

I just had to double check myself because of your statement. Osprey’s Nimsdai 90 is $390. A quick look at the Alpine Luddites website shows that the 80 and 100 liter Alpine Machine packs (which are similar competitors in feature to the Nims 90) list at $950. Is this not more than 2x the price? 

And for that $950 one gets a pack that arguably they might never wear out. I won’t counter this because it’s likely true. What I will say is that this is also often true with many of the other materials in play that are far less on cost and MOST people simply don’t use their gear hard enough to wear out much less expensive packs. This affirmed by the regular posts about 20+ year old Cold Cold World packs made from Cordura. Another area of data is the number of Cilo packs made from nylon that are still seen going up hard climbs 10 years on. And more reinforcement that lesser materials last a long time is gained by looking at the classifieds and second hand stores and how many 15+ year old packs can be found. 

To be clear, John your packs are beautiful. I'd love to have one. In my opinion though, the pricing between materials and labor ends up being very excessive for an item that I will likely not wear out before tiring of it (regardless of manufacturer or material), be abusive toward, and need many different sizes and models to fit specific applications in the mountains. 

I didn't say that there isn't a place for a manufacturer like yourself, and I genuinely wish you success. I however don't find that most packs made of the very expensive materials (dyneema was a slang shortcut as I am very acutely aware of the other materials you've listed) are worth the added expense. The person that would realize the added benefit of one of these packs generally does not need to ask on internet forums. They've worn enough packs to know what it is that they need. 

Check out the Mountain Hardwear AMG pack. That might be what you’re looking for. Recently I was using a light weight pack with maybe 50lbs but I’d have taken something burlier if it carried the weight better. You might be in the same boat, it’s always a balancing act getting the weight right for the right price and still bringing everything you need.