What shelter to use in windy alpine environments?

The OR alpine bivy is the way to go if you still want a bivy. Much more durable and else at her proof than the Helium.

For tents, any decent “bibler” style tent will work great. BD eldorado/ first light are good examples. MH, Rab, and other good companies have their own.

Honorable mention for the Sierra Designs Convert 2 since I tested it and it’s great in high winds. Good price, lightweight, and spacious. Only downside is it has a larger foot print but that’s all. 

Did the OR Bivy "wet out" due to your generated moisture inside condensing on the cold inside walls of the bivy?

If so, the only way to avoid that is sufficient ventilation. A sealed up WPB Bivy doesn't have that.

Desert Rock Sports wrote:

Did the OR Bivy "wet out" due to your generated moisture inside condensing on the cold inside walls of the bivy?

If so, the only way to avoid that is sufficient ventilation. A sealed up WPB Bivy doesn't have that.

I've wondered this ever since it happened, and I really don't know. It was very cold out, so there was definitely condensation. But it rained for hours, and my sleeping bag was very wet, more wet than I would think condensation would have done. But I could be wrong. Either way, the bivvy seems untenable as a truly reliable shelter.

Desert Rock Sports wrote:

Did the OR Bivy "wet out" due to your generated moisture inside condensing on the cold inside walls of the bivy?

If so, the only way to avoid that is sufficient ventilation. A sealed up WPB Bivy doesn't have that.

I have never had any condensation issue with the OR alpine. However, I primarily climb in the Rockies (Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana) which is much dryer than the PNW for example. I haven’t used it in areas like that. I have always just kept the zipper open maybe 4-6” and I generally only get a bit of condensation on the inside that’s directly in front of my face/ mouth.

Obviously bivys are pretty specific on type of use and location as well. I tend to only use them up above tree line. Depending on your objective, a BD first light may be as small or light as you and your partner carrying separate bivys.

Last time I used the OR alpine bivy for example, my buddy and I did the Cathedral Traverse in the tetons and opted for the bivys in case we needed to sleep in separate spots and they were a bit smaller space wise in our packs than our tent option.  

RandyLee wrote:

A properly set up mid tent could be what you’re after. Gotta have it low and properly tied down if it’s super windy, but I have the BD Megamid (I think that’s the name) and have had that out in wind that was hard to stand upright in, and my buddy with the hyperlight has had his out in real weather, that one is sub-2lbs. On snow I like to carry a bivy sack with it, it makes it easier to live in a snow cave if needed and keeps some heat in so I can get away with a 30-degree bag in single digits.

But find a friend with one before you try it out so you can learn to set it up properly, and how to choose a good site. 

One thing about the mega mid, even with a low pitch and solid guy-out I had the zipper separate and then break after coming apart in very high wind, but also the wind shifted in the night and started loading the door side of the tent so we probably should have gotten up and re-pitched. Although I don’t know that it would have been possible in that wind. We just wrapped ourselves in the nylon like a blanket and suffered.

Joe Hollowed wrote:

I've read they aren't waterproof though

It's waterproof enough. It's not like it turns into a bathtub. Just some drips here or there as long as you have decent drainage under you. I've weathered a multi-day rainstorm in the Bugs in mine. If you have a small packtowel to mop up any drips, you'll be fine.

Re:Snapped guylines:

Stronger guylines (I like lawson Ironwire— polysheathe, dyneema core, hyperstatic and handles well in wet/icy conditions) along with a bit of shock cord to prevent shock loading and buffeting.

Desert Rock Sports wrote:

Did the OR Bivy "wet out" due to your generated moisture inside condensing on the cold inside walls of the bivy?

If so, the only way to avoid that is sufficient ventilation. A sealed up WPB Bivy doesn't have that.

This is my experience with bivy sacks.  I had lots of condensation and a wet sleeping bag in the morning even with NM low humidity.  Also the thought of riding out a rain storm sealed in a bivy sack seems like a nightmare.  The OR bivy sacks with the poles to keep the sack off my head seems more tolerable.  Certainly I would survive but rest and sleep would be compromised.   

For an extra pound split between two people I think a tent is that should be considered.

Any waterproof bivy is going to collect condensation. It's a "better than nothing" shelter when you're in a crap situation to begin with that you can set up nearly anywhere that you can find a relatively flat, coffin shaped area of ground - and even, "relatively flat" is not absolutely mandatory.

But having to stake out a bivy sort of takes away its main advantage in that you can sleep in it anywhere - seems the worst of both worlds. If you need to stake out something, get an actual shelter that you can at least bring your gear inside with you and being able to do a modicrum of usual activities (boil water, eat, sort gear).

If your choices include "not in a crap situation" choose that location, and put a shelter down. My favorite bivy is ~200g and just keeps the bag cleaner/acts like a splash guard/bug guard when I'm sleeping underneath a tarp. Oftentimes I'm not in a crap situation though, and can lay inside it, tarpless underneath the stars. AAAAAAAAAhh. 

Four Season Expedition Tents are made for being in camps for weeks at a time. Their big draw after wind resistance is UV resistance. Most tents will degrade being up with that much UV for weeks at a time. Big reason they're so heavy and if you have a "Four Season" tent that doesn't have that sort of fabric, you may not have been sold an honest four season tent.

Joe Hollowed wrote:

I've wondered this ever since it happened, and I really don't know. It was very cold out, so there was definitely condensation. But it rained for hours, and my sleeping bag was very wet, more wet than I would think condensation would have done. But I could be wrong. Either way, the bivvy seems untenable as a truly reliable shelter.

I once put a garbage bag over the end of my sleeping bag during a very windy and wet night I was worried about backsplash. I was absolutely shocked at how wet the inside was in the morning from sweat condensation, like I had slept outside. Took several nights to dry 

Maybe not answering the OP’s question but a solution that worked well on Aconcagua. With its infamy for high winds I decided to climb sans tent although I had a small tarp. As others struggled at high camps to set up tents in the wind I draped my tarp over the stone walls erected by previous climbers as wind breaks. Tied the edges down to large rocks and in just a few minutes had a bombproof shelter. I was very fortunate to be able to take advantage of the work of others and it helped that I was able to find a 3 sided structure just big enough for one. 

Storm hit right as we got off the rap at the Upper Saddle (we'd climbed the Petzoldt Direct).  18 hours in the tent at the Lower Saddle.  Pretty spicy rain/wind.

Snug as a bug.

There is only 1 type of tent for the alpine and wind and rain. The bd first light is great. In the big wet , you might get a bit damp. But get the original bibler tents  (Eldorado, Fitzroy, awahnee). Those were made for the Pacific Northwest. Bombproof, dry , and with only a single very taught fabric there is no flapping at all. I’ve taken those things around the world and in the worst storms I can imagine on longs peak. Slept like a baby in huge winds.

You can’t go wrong with a bibler, first light ,. All nice and quiet. 

Brian in SLC wrote:

Storm hit right as we got off the rap at the Upper Saddle (we'd climbed the Petzoldt Direct).  18 hours in the tent at the Lower Saddle.  Pretty spicy rain/wind.

Snug as a bug.

The Firstlight is very tempting. Seems designed-for-purpose, classic, respected... It just seems crazy to me to spend this much on a 4-season tent that can't offer protection from the rain. What do you mean by "pretty spicy" rain? Did it really last the full 18 hours? Gearlabs review on the firstlight is pretty damning, going so far as to call spending time in a firstlight in the rain "miserable". (review here). It sounds like it is generally used for short summer trips where weather is likely to be decent, and can give you just enough protection in the event that it does rain that you won't die from exposure, but will still have an awful time... but that exactly how I can already describe my Helium Bivvy. Basically, if I'm going to spend >$400, then it seems silly to get something that I still have to be worried about the rain in.

In fact, this pushes me even further toward the Mountain Hardwear AC2. It's ~0.7 lbs heavier than a firstlight, but is waterproof and still has a mesh door option. The BD Eldo seems simply too heavy and bulky, and the AC2 is more in the sweet spot. Plus with AAC Member ExpertVoice discount, it costs the same as a FIrstlight.

I really like my Hilleberg Niak. It’s strong and easy to set up bomber.

Otherwise get a Hilleberg Nallo. Not free standing, but 4 season, light and double bomber.

If you really want a 4 season and free standing but still light option then you’ll have to compromise space and use a 1.5 person Hilleberg Unna (sleeps 2 tightly but reasonable) or carry more weight.

Proper guy lines are imperative, proper shielding helps a ton, location matters, and otherwise stay home in bad weather.

I used a bivy sack for years in the marine corps. I carry my 2 person Niak as a solo shelter all the time and it’s completely worth the weight to me. 

As other mentioned, have to be specific which version of the Hilight (im not sure about Firstlight) since they changed up the fabrics when they were refreshed a few years back.

My experience with the newer Hilight (blue fabric), the tent keeps the rain out just fine, but you do have to manage condensation in those conditions. Luckily that is pretty easy with the full side door vents. I like the tent a lot but it is not perfect in any metric - it’s not the lightest, or most wind-worthy (it is quite sturdy, but in a true gale id be worried about the top acting like a wing), and I’d prefer a color other than blue lol. On the plus side the 3p version gives more livable area for 2 people compared to most alpine tents.

Yeah, the blue 30D hi-tensile polyester BD is using on some of their newer tents is great. Very waterproof, no sag when wet, should hold up to UV well (polyester is more UV stable than nylon). 

Eli W wrote:

Yeah, the blue 30D hi-tensile polyester BD is using on some of their newer tents is great. Very waterproof, no sag when wet, should hold up to UV well (polyester is more UV stable than nylon).

That doesn't include the firstlight? Tbh I've seen such mixed reviews about the waterproofness. Some people say they got soaked, some say they were fine. Which is surprising for a tent feature that you'd think would be an objective fact. So I don't know how much stock to put in these claims about a new material...

I'm not sure if I could trust statements about waterproofing quality from the manufacturer of Firstlight and other tents in that line. 

I would absolutely stay away from Firstlight. I have had mine, double sealed when new,  (now stored in my climbing room) for a few years now, because it is useless in rain. No wonder the manufacturer states that it is intended for "drier conditions" and winter super-light trips. But what's the use for tent that only functions in dry weather?  

The original Bibler style (cc 4.5 lbs) in Goretex or similar material, although expensive, will handle any conditions in the mountains including rain, snow and wind. BTW my Bibler 2 man is almost 30 years old and still functions great.

I was dry and comfortable in my Bibler/Black Diamond hooped bivy (I think they only sell the big wall bivy now) in both thunderstorms and freezing rain. It's nearly twice the weight of the Helium Bivy, but very competitive with the OR advanced bivy.

I do pair it with a sil-nylon tarp if conditions allow, because then i don't have to fully climb inside, but I've never had an issue with condensation.