Green z4 or dragonfly vs red ball nut.

Debating getting the small green z4 or dragonfly.  Already have a red ball nut which covers the same size and gets a bit smaller and fits into shallower pockets than a cam.

Thoughts on buying the green or stick with the ball nut?  Have doubles of the red size 

preference on dragonfly vs z4? 

just get both. I think the dragonfly is holding up a little better than the z4 tho.

I feel like ball nuts and microcams serve separate purposes.

I'm gonna place a ball nut to catch a whip, but I'll try to do it from a good stance or a rehearsed placement where I can ensure that the ball is seated deep and low. I'll pretty much always climb above/past a ball nut.

A green z4 gets placed when I'm pumped/sketched and need to take, or I need to pull through a section. Note that I'm weighting the microcam much more often than the ball nut, but trying really hard not to whip on it. Often looking to back clean it when I climb past and find better gear or just to prevent rope drag. Maybe I'll chuck a sling on it and step past but it has to be an amazing placement and usually a nut or ball nut will suit it better.

If I'm in really rare form I'll hang on the micro-cam while I negotiate the fiddly nut or ball nut placement.

The bolder climbers I know prefer ball nuts for this purpose, because they don't climb with the same amount of drama as I do.

I’m similar to bmd. If I need to whip, I’m placing ball nuts or micro nuts. May throw the smaller cams into a nest, but I don’t usually rely on them. I’ve had the smallest cams around since the olden days before dragonfly and z4 and almost never place them. Have placed many ball nuts and brassies tho! 

Not to hijack this thread too much, but what is the consensus on ball nuts? I’m considering getting the blue, red, and yellow camp ball nuts to replace micro cams. They’re all rated to 8kn, as opposed to 5kn for most really small micros. Are they really bomber? The way they work is still kinda weird to me, but if they’re more legit protection then a tiny ass cam then I’m all for it

I haven’t used the Z4s nor ballnuts, but I believe the green Dragon Fly is the only cam that size with a 6kN rating. That’s the main reason I went with it.

Jack Bushway wrote:

Not to hijack this thread too much, but what is the consensus on ball nuts? I’m considering getting the blue, red, and yellow camp ball nuts to replace micro cams. They’re all rated to 8kn, as opposed to 5kn for most really small micros. Are they really bomber? The way they work is still kinda weird to me, but if they’re more legit protection then a tiny ass cam then I’m all for it

They can for sure work and are often times way better than nothing at all. Think of them as the smallest nut you'd like to fall on, but can cam. I've ripped pieces and gotten caught by the smallest one, blue....and it came out no sweat whatsoever.

Jack Bushway wrote:

Not to hijack this thread too much, but what is the consensus on ball nuts? I’m considering getting the blue, red, and yellow camp ball nuts to replace micro cams. They’re all rated to 8kn, as opposed to 5kn for most really small micros. Are they really bomber? The way they work is still kinda weird to me, but if they’re more legit protection then a tiny ass cam then I’m all for it

Seems like you're conflating the rating number with having anything to do with whether a piece HOLDS or not. That's not what 8kn vs 5kn means. It's the number at which the cam BREAKS in a static pull test in an ideal placement. Out in the real world, you're very unlikely to find a placement so bomber that the cam actually breaks rather than pulling. Especially with micros. 

I have the green Z4 and do not like the action of it. The double axle Z4 are very good, but I would look at the dragonfly.

Wictor Dahlström wrote:

I have the green Z4 and do not like the action of it. The double axle Z4 are very good, but I would look at the dragonfly.

If you are after a good action I'd avoid both and get wild country. 

I dont think I have tried the Wild Country, but dragon flies are still nicer than the Z4 when it is single axle. Wild Country looks nice. The smallest cam I own that I would carry for free climbing is the black Alien Revolution. It is howevery bigger than the green Z4, but feels way more solid.