Stainless perma-draws

Any good recipes? Do I have to use chain? Has anyone swaged and sheathed their own stainless cable or is that too scary? What about the carabiner?

Not really necessary unless they are on a climb that sees wetness year round. You can prep your chain with rustoleum etc....

Yes, they're in a temperate rainforest. Zinc plated chain rusts in a year.

5/16" SS chain and quicklink with a zinc carabiner like the be smith captive:

https://www.beal-planet.com/en/karabiners/1571-be-smith-captive.html

The carabiner will still rust but that shouldn't be a huge problem.  I don't know of any stainless captive eye carabiners other than the US stainless ones which would be a pain to clip since the gates are much stiffer.

I forgot about the fixe draco, I've used these and they're great but so expensive!

https://fixehardware.com/index.php/fixe-plx-duplex-ss-draco-keylock-1.html

Thanks for the suggestions!

Maybe I'm being too picky but the clipping action on fixed chain draws feels off. Something like the sterling or camp cable draws are so much better.

https://www.kong.it/en/product/indoor-bar-straight-gate/

This kong carabiner looks promising but I wish the capture pin was removable.

https://www.team-tough.com/chain-perma-draws

Oh cool! Anyone used those?  The 10mm wire gate carabiner looks suspiciously like the e-rigging or US Stainless one which, while awesome for anchors, is a bit on the stiff side.

bmdhacks wrote:

Yes, they're in a temperate rainforest. Zinc plated chain rusts in a year.

Yup... SS is the only option then.

bmdhacks wrote:

Oh cool! Anyone used those?  The 10mm wire gate carabiner looks suspiciously like the e-rigging or US Stainless one which, while awesome for anchors, is a bit on the stiff side.

I would ask Jim Titt since he makes them. The design does look similar to the US Stainless ones, but these have a bent gate which should help with clipping.

Paired up with some stainless chain. Clipping action is soft and excellent. Spendy, but the best stainless option I've found. For galvanized/plated, CAMP are great.

Zachary Winters wrote:

This is what you want: https://www.weighmyrack.com/carabiner/cypher-stainless-steel-wiregym

Paired up with some stainless chain. Clipping action is soft and excellent. Spendy, but the best stainless option I've found. For galvanized/plated, CAMP are great.

Do you have a source for these? Also, are they hammer in pins, or do you just flex the pin to get the chain through?  Your thumb is kinda in the way

Looks like the Singing Rock one that was marketed by Ocun, it's normal steel nowadays. Indoor walls have no need to spend more on stainless so nobody makes them. I was going to buy them but there wasn't enough interest generally and they were dropped.

bmdhacks wrote:

Any good recipes? Do I have to use chain? Has anyone swaged and sheathed their own stainless cable or is that too scary? What about the carabiner?

I've swaged a ton of my own, mainly for use as anchors, back in NC where anything other than ss will rust fast, and where ss chain would cost a fortune. We used biners in lieu of Mussy Hooks on the rope end. These were mainly for small crags with limited use, and with responsible climbers that knew how to assess and replace hardware as needed. 

Happy to answer questions privately if that helps. Either way, if you can find a *good cable supply store locally, they should be able to answer all your questions.

World wall is mostly zinc plated quick links, galvinished cable and zinc carabiners. Not that they look great but if its south facing and overhanging I wouldn't necessarily require it be stainless. 

Fixe Draco the spring wears down fast and the gates stick open and closed. Lots of failures in central TX. Something from US stainless, or some misc marine stainless carabiner may be the best and only SS options.

Jim Day wrote:

Do you have a source for these? Also, are they hammer in pins, or do you just flex the pin to get the chain through?  Your thumb is kinda in the way

They're hammer in, Cypher brand. I don't have a source anymore unfortunately. 

Zachary Winters wrote:

They're hammer in, Cypher brand. I don't have a source anymore unfortunately. 

Thanks, they look great, yesterday I asked this vendor if it comes with a pin or not, but they haven't replied yet

https://recreation-outfitters.com/products/cypher-cypher-stainless-steel-wiregym

Cypher ones should come with the pin, at least they do when ordered through Liberty Mountain.

I thought that using 316SS for permas on route was considered excessive and the 316SS wears away faster than the plated options anyway. Plus all the 316SS fixed pins are all double or more the price of plated fixed pins. 

I've been really liking the fixe/metolius/trango fixed pins and SS chain & QL from US Stainless for permas that get wet. Using a wire gate is nice since the gate is less likely to wear out than the little spring in a solid gate if they see a good amount of water. 

Having placed/replaced lots of permas in Washington I think that full SS is overkill. Feel free to use stainless chain and quick links, but any steel wiregate should work. I've got a personal preference for the metolius ones. The old Fixe steel biners were my favorite, but they don't seem to make them any more.

Climbtech biners last a while, but require one to bend the capitve pin a bit for 5/16" chain.They won't work at all for 3/8" chain. Same is true for the camp biners, which seem to gum up in the gate the fastest.

I've used the kong/cypher ones ones where there is running water over a route/draw seasonally, but that's about it.

https://mtnoutlet.com/catalog/product/view/id/101/s/cypher-stainless-steel-gym-wire-gate-quickdraw/category/6/
Not sure if these come with the pin, but I used to order the standalone biner (with pin) from mtnoutlet.