Grade conversion question

When I see e.g. "5a", is that as hard as 5.8 trad or 5.8 sport?

This is in the context of alpine/trad climbing in Chamonix & similar areas in the alps, such as the grades listed here. the fact that they're "sport grades" makes me think that the YDS sport grade applies, while the nature of the climbing implies that a trad grade should apply.

Which interpretation to use will vastly change the range of routes that I'm able to climb..

Ellen S wrote:

When I see e.g. "5a", is that as hard as 5.8 trad or 5.8 sport?

This is in the context of alpine/trad climbing in Chamonix & similar areas in the alps, such as the grades listed here. the fact that they're "sport grades" makes me think that the YDS sport grade applies, while the nature of the climbing implies that a trad grade should apply.

Which interpretation to use will vastly change the range of routes that I'm able to climb..

Looks to be between 5.8 and 5.9. 5a being “sport” indicates that the YDS is in sport mode as well but really grades are mostly arbitrary and only intended as a rough guideline anyway.

If the ‘5a’ is in an alpine guidebook, it will be the ‘French’ or sport grade ( even if it isn’t on a sport climb).

What you are describing as the ‘trad’ grade, is a distinctly ‘British’ grade. It is the ‘technical’ grade and almost invariably accompanied by an adjectival ‘commitment’ grade such as V.S. ( very severe) or Diff. ( Difficult). It is unlikely that you will see such grade’s outside of the U.K.

As indicated in the charts you posted a British ‘tech’/‘trad’ 5a would generally be somewhat harder than the ‘French’ 5a. Without knowing specifically where you are planning on climbing I believe that the 5a you are interested in is the ‘French’/sport grade.

To complicate things even more though, if the 5a has a ‘lower case’ ‘f’ in front of it, that is the ‘Fontainebleau’ bouldering grade—much harder than either of the other 5as!!! 

As others said 5a is 5a sport but it will still be graded 5a even if it is a trad route.
The grade takes only into account the difficulty of the climb and not the type of pro you will have to use/place.
Thus 5a sport is easier than 5a trad coz you don't have to place pro even though every moves are the same. 

Alan Rubin wrote:

If the ‘5a’ is in an alpine guidebook, it will be the ‘French’ or sport grade ( even if it isn’t on a sport climb).

What you are describing as the ‘trad’ grade, is a distinctly ‘British’ grade. It is the ‘technical’ grade and almost invariably accompanied by an adjectival ‘commitment’ grade such as V.S. ( very severe) or Diff. ( Difficult). It is unlikely that you will see such grade’s outside of the U.K.

As indicated in the charts you posted a British ‘tech’/‘trad’ 5a would generally be somewhat harder than the ‘French’ 5a. Without knowing specifically where you are planning on climbing I believe that the 5a you are interested in is the ‘French’/sport grade.

To complicate things even more though, if the 5a has a ‘lower case’ ‘f’ in front of it, that is the ‘Fontainebleau’ bouldering grade—much harder than either of the other 5as!!! 

What about Font traversing grades?????

Always causing trouble, Eric. Go back to saving the world or country or whatever.

I think we are going  to need to target you for Routine Maintenance 

Ellen S wrote:

When I see e.g. "5a", is that as hard as 5.8 trad or 5.8 sport?

Alpine routes can be unbolted, minimally bolted, or (rarely) quasi-sport routes but it is best to assume you'll be trad. climbing and treat the grades accordingly. The 5a grade in the Rockfax Chamonix guidebook and used for French alpine routes in the UKC database is the French grade (sometimes erroneously called the sport grade, in France it is used for both trad. and sport climbing). 

The Rockfax diagram you post is as accurate as these things ever can be, just ignore the two middle columns for British and UIAA grades. As the diagram indicates, 5a is usually equivalent to 5.8, sometimes 5.9; 5b is 5.9; 5c is 5.9/10a; 6a is usually 10a; 6a+ is 10b etc. Cracks are sometimes a little generously graded in France, so a 5a crack might feel more like 5.8 than 5.9, but not always!  

duncan... wrote:

Alpine routes can be unbolted, minimally bolted, or (rarely) quasi-sport routes but it is best to assume you'll be trad. climbing and treat the grades accordingly. The 5a grade in the Rockfax Chamonix guidebook and used for French alpine routes in the UKC database is the French grade (sometimes erroneously called the sport grade, in France it is used for both trad. and sport climbing). 

The Rockfax diagram you post is as accurate as these things ever can be, just ignore the two middle columns for British and UIAA grades. As the diagram indicates, 5a is usually equivalent to 5.8, sometimes 5.9; 5b is 5.9; 5c is 5.9/10a; 6a is usually 10a; 6a+ is 10b etc. Cracks are sometimes a little generously graded in France, so a 5a crack might feel more like 5.8 than 5.9, but not always!  

Duncan has nailed it - as ever!