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A nut above a cam, or a cam above a nut before the crux?
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If you're about to launch into a crux, 2 pieces would generally be very helpful in both safety and headspace. I like to use a nut and a cam, instead of 2 cams. Would it be wiser to have the nut higher or the cam higher? ASSUMING the top one one will 100% blow (making up a scenario), and that the placements are extremely close to each othjer, which arrangment will be less likely to fiddle the lower piece around if the top piece blew? Bascially, which arrangement would reduce gate fluterring/outwards impact to the second piece? |
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I think this depends on the situation you’re in. What does the rock look like and if there’s any chance for upwards pull on the nut |
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If you are nesting, nut above cam, making sure the rope would come taught on the cam before the nut from below and the nut would get loaded first from top before the cam. The cam size being a question if you are placing close to a nut placement. Smaller cams tend to be less omnidirectional in all but the most parallel sandstone splitters, so make sure you really get that sucker cammed in there tight. |
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clip the bolt |
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Whichever is the better pair of placements? If they're both equally good (or bad) I'd go nut above cam, as I would think the violent rope movement of a failing piece has a greater chance of messing up the direction of pull consequentially on a nut. |
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I’ve placed a marginal cam above a nut that was only good for a downward pull before a traversing crux. I’ve done this a number of times thinking that if the fall rips the cam, the pull will be downward and the nut will still be good because the cam protected the nut from weird sideward or upward pulls. I’ve never actually ripped the cam though so my experience isn’t exactly applicable to your scenario. When onsighting near my limit, if I have a good stance before a sequence where it looks like a fall is possible I’ll try to place two pieces. It makes committing much easier and I’m more willing to climb farther before trying to place more gear. When your one piece is below your feet and you’re not 100% sure it would catch you, you’re likely to lock off on whatever shitty hold you can find and start trying to fiddle something else in. If you’re completely sure your last pro is gonna hold, you’ll be more willing to commit to a few more hard moves and find a better stance to place from. |
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Assuming the top piece will 100% blow, don’t place it. Extend your best piece appropriately. |
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If this is the choice with no other information, I would have the not the lowest since it is more sensitive to outward pull. On real rock it would place things that looks like good placements and dont care about what goes where. |
John Clark wrote: how about magic x sling both together? |
The Butt-Shot Whisperer wrote: Could create more upward pull on the nut as you climb above, but more importantly it would shockload the remaining piece if one blew out. Better to extend it with an individual alpine. |
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Only in the best of cracks |
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One of the many benefits of half ropes is that in such situations you can clip one strand to each piece. End of problem (if there really is a problem...) |
The Butt-Shot Whisperer wrote: I think that defeats the purpose of the cam ‘protecting’ the nut from getting ripped out. I don’t think it matters which is on top, I’ll always throw a longer runner on the nut so it is always loaded after the cam |
ryan climbs sometimes wrote: Actually an effective technique to remove a stuck cam, especially if your mouth is already dry from whipping off the crux. |
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If only this was always the problem! Learn to place good gear and to trust it. It isn't always possible to get in two pieces and if you know your one piece is good, don't spend the energy placing more. |
