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Heel lever micro-adjustmens are going away an its ok
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I noticed Grivel has done away with the thumb screws to adjust the height of heel levers, just like Camp and Petzl before. I think this is a step in the right direction. Even though it's billed as a weight savings, I want to point out that those thumb screws are probably the weakest part of the crampon and getting rid of them makes the whole product a lot more robust. I've personally broken thumb screws on two separate occasions (once on a set of G12s and once on an older pair of BD Cyborgs). Fortunately both times were at the start of the day donning my crampons. If it had been while climbing then there would be nothing holding my heel to the crampon and that would suck. So while some have lamented the loss of the micro-adjustment of the heel lever, personally I am glad to have one less fairly delicate thing that could break on me in a committing location. My $.02 |
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I have some older, pre-knob crampons that I have to swap heel bails to fit different boots, as it just doesn't clip tight enough. For other boot/crampon pairings the knob makes all difference between a solid or iffy fit. If durability is an issue for the knob, there are other options. My first pair of crampons have two metal parts on the heel bail, meeting at a zig zag join. You can move the parts along the zig zag to get micro adjustments which are solid. |
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We fit crampons to a multitude of rental and personal boots as part of our rental business. Eliminating the heel adjust is making it much more difficult for us to get good fit in a reasonable amount of time, even then is still a gamble sometimes and might be too tight for petite people to safely attach or too loose and risk crampons falling off. We've taken great pride in providing quality gear that's well taken care of and works well. I'm not sure this is forward progress. Gram shaving and increased profits? For personal boots and crampons, once you find a setting that works, it might be ok. For reference we have about 40 pairs of crampons (various brands and models) and have been in business for 6 years now and never had a problem with any any adjusters that a little TLC lube couldn't resolve. |
alpinejason wrote: personally, i've been unhappy with camp crampons and the lack of adjustability to fit my G2 evo's. none of the 3 pre-determined heel bail settings worked and i gave up on getting the fit i wanted. went back to BD and bam, perfect fit.... consequently, i have a brand new pair of camp crampons if anyone is interested :) |
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It's a terrible idea. Crampon fit is more important than crampon design. Doesn't matter how awesome the geometry of the front/secondary points is, if the crampons don't fit your boots, they're shit. Micro adjustment on the heel lever can mean the difference between a good and a bad fit. I had a pair of Camp crampons (newest Alpine tech monos) that simply would not fit my boots because of this loss of adjustment options. This move away from adjustability is a big step backwards. |
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I think the micro adjustability matters tremendously as well. I've been fortunate that I've managed to get a good fit quickly with most brands. That said I really like the fit of my stingers these days and I hope BD does not eliminate the micro adjustment. |
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I’m pro micro adjust. I use that to dial in just the right “snap” of that heel lever when I use different boots through the course of a season Also, the change isn’t due to any inherent reliability concerns, but rather margin concerns. Did the prices drop commensurately ? |
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I'm sensing a product opportunity here: an aftermarket heel bail with robust micro adjust capability. Should sell for $20-30/pair and fit all brands. |
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It seems to me that we're talking about 3 different but related issues:
I imagine there's some push-pull on these issues in the design decisions, and like for every product, there are compromises to be made. In my experience, aslong as the connector rod holes are closely spaced, a perfectly satisfactory fit can be achieved on just about any boot-crampon combination I've used. There may be some finicky combinations where that just can't happen without the adjustment dial, but such is life. All we can really do is vote with our dollars or, as suggested above, explore after-market possibilities. |
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To me, eliminating the microadjust is simply cost savings. I think the big elephant in the room is crampon size availability. At the very, very, very least, they should be available in S/M and M/L. And I mean the frames...the pieces underfoot with all the pointy parts. I have size 48 boots and some crampons are ridiculous...just little teeter-totters at the front and back...nothing under midfoot...nothing close to the outside edges of the boots. I bet the problem is the same for those with very small feet. I dream of a world/company that offers different frame sizes, and a nice range of toe and heel bails to get a great, snap tight fit. But I'm going to keep dreaming, because I don't think the companies could make enough profit that way :( |
Bruno Schull wrote: I would support this too but I just don't think the value/volume is there for these companies and you inferred. I have long linking bars for every mfg that makes them and cut several short bars with cut off wheel . We still have a running list of crampons that just don't work with large or small boots. For instance Grivel G20+/22+ crampons only fit down to about 41 boot, the OG G20/22 could fit slightly smaller. It's unfortunate that 15% +/- of our adult clients can't wear G20+/G22+. On the flip side I fit a pair of G14 to a 6yr old a couple weeks ago and still had a notch or two left on the linking bar, the boot length was about 8.5". In general I think there is a lot of room for improvement in the crampon market but it's likely not going to come from the big three (or four). |
alpinejason wrote: This is a good thing. I hate it when a fresh, “outta the box” noob straps on a pair of G20+’s and climbs just as well as me! |
Grant Watson wrote: Regarding 3 - my highly scientific polling of asking half a dozen friends has more broken crampons than all other ice gear put together. I've ripped multiple tines off of crampons on a pretty remote glacier trip in Alaska. I've broken multiple heal levers. I'm now of the 'replace early replace often' mindset with crampons. One friend - a very talented and experienced ice climber - took a substantial lead fall when he broke the toe bail of his crampon. Another friend had to bail off a very serious alpine mixed route when his crampons broke. I can think of at least two others in my small circle of partners that have broken crampons at very inopportune times. |
Mark Pilate wrote: G20s feel like cheating |
Jake907 wrote: Got any details on the person bailing on the mixed route? |
Jake907 wrote: General broken crampons could be another thread all together and I agree with your statement about broken crampons exceeding other ice gear. I have a bin of broken crampon bits and pieces as well. However, my anecdotal evidence does not indicate the heel adjustment component is anywhere near the weak point though. I certainly don't envy Mfg. position having to manage innovation, strength, durability, and revenue. I think we can all agree we'd sacrifice a gram for improved durability but how about 2? Or 6? There's likely significant diminishing returns and even then they couldn't eliminate all chance of failure. All this said, I'd still like the option of the adjustable heel lever even if it was just sold as a spare part like BD sells different size toe bails. I feel like I'm going to be buying them off the dark web for a premium in the future. |
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I have broken a few pairs of crampons. always leading or soloing. now i replace at the first signs of serious wear. if the points are dull and you are thinking about replacing the front points its time to go new. maybe i need to start saving those heel pieces..... |
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Sorry but no way am I going to replace my crampons when I can just replace the front points |
John Edwin wrote: A friend was pretty high on the North Buttress of Hunter when he broke his crampon and had to retreat. I dont know the details |
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Go for it John. replace those worn out front points with brand new nice sharp perfect front points to now go with the rest of your crampons that are just as worn out as the front point that you were replacing. ... makes perfect sense and now you are ready to go BIG dude... had this happen on an 800ft solo.. bolt broke..  |
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Not sure what point you’re trying to make? Those are absolutely hammered and should be replaced. No reasonable person would argue otherwise. I closely examine all PPE gear after every climb for wear, structural soundness. Consumables like crampons and tools almost always give fair warning before breaking if you know what to look for and how to identify it. This should be done by every ice climber. If I examine my crampons and determine that the points are worn past being safe but the frame, etc. are still fine the yes I’m absolutely going to spend $40 to replace them |
