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Buying first crampons and ice axe
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I want to buy my first crampons and ice axe, and obviously I want them to be as versatile as possible. For the crampons, I am undecided on these (using petzl but can be similar of another brand) Vasak Sarken Lynx I would use them on easier stuff, but might eventually try steeper terrain - though very unlikely ice climbing for a few years, and if I reach that point, I can buy more technical crampons (assuming you don't recommend the lynx) For the ice axe, I'm not sure if the "light weight" options are as resistant. For example, the Singingrock Wizard Light is selling for 60€ on a shop that I know, is this a good option, or should I pick something like the Petzel Summit, which is 40€ more expensive 100001.onl/ ? Finally, regarding size of the piolet - I used one that is 60cm on a course, and it felt fine. Should I keep the size or does it make sense to shorten it 5 or so cm? Thank you! |
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Any crampon on the market can climb moderate or steep snow. Aluminum will get trashed on rock - so keep that in mind. Most of it is fit on the boot, brand preference, and then tailored toward terrain type. Generally piolets become shorter and closer to ice tools in shape the more technical the terrain becomes - conversely they are longer and straighter for less technical terrain. Ax length selection is a function of your objective. For starters you might have better luck buying a used piolet at 60cm or so - it's unlikely in a few years the objectives you want to tackle will be the same. |
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For a starter pack if you want to stay with Petzl my vote goes to the Vasak for crampons and to the Summit Evo for the axe. |
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Where do you climb, "ferb"? |
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If your boots have both a front and rear lip so you can use fully step in crampons, I would highly recommend the BD Snaggletooth crampon. They are great on snow, neve, ice, and steep ice. Easily my favorite and most versatile crampons (and I have used and owned many many different crampons.) |
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you should buy these: |
Kai Larson wrote: How well are you able to get the secondary points engaged on steep ice with the Snaggletooths? Pictures online make the secondary points look pretty short |
A D wrote: Secondary points engage well on steep ice. Just need to make sure they are adjusted properly on your boots so that these points are in front of your boot toe. |
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Ok this topic and concern regarding secondary points came up earlier this season, and I may be in the minority, but after paying it close attention and studying it all season, I say it’s a myth at best and a hindrance at worst. Hear me out. Now it’s just plain ol’ physics that the farther out your center of gravity is, the larger the “bending moment” your calves have to compensate for to maintain proper position. Roughly this means an extra 15-20 lbs on your calves for each bail position back from the furthest forward. All my Crampons are set up with all bails farthest forward to minimize extended front points. The secondaries are essentially even with the toe of my boot and do not extend beyond. All season (been paying attention) I have never “buried” my front point up to the toe of my boot. Therefore, to engage my secondaries, I have to drop my heels about 5-10 degrees which is pretty standard. Now someone with bails set further back would need to bury their front point about .5-.7 of an inch deeper just to offset the detriment of the backward setting. This would result in unnecessary fatigue over several pitches…or don’t kick in as far, but then have their calves take extra strain from standing farther out on the “diving board”. The reason this goes largely unnoticed, is because to really notice and compare the differences, you’d need to climb a few pitches on a perfectly smooth vertical sheet of ice. Real ice is always featured to a degree that renders the issue moot over more than about 75% of a pitch on avg. Therefore my position that worrying about getting secondary points in front of your boots is a red herring (unless you kick like a motherfucker and bury those points) and could actually hamper you when on steeper more vertical terrain.   |
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Will Gadd's take. Some people think this “forward” placement will lead to calf fatigue, but it’s not how long the points are but how solidly the secondary points get into the ice that controls calf load. If you’re just standing on sketchy front points then you can’t “relax” at all onto your forefoot where the secondary points take the load… It’s not about just the front points, half the stability comes from the secondary points! https://willgadd.com/a-simple-fix-frontpoints-and-tibialis-anterior/ |
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Kai- I know what Will’s take is. I understand the “theory” and am not disagreeing with the basic premise. But do the math and pay attention closely to your own climbs and what your points are doing. My secondaries are as engaged as much as anyone’s and helping to support the load. The goal is to rest on a tripod. I just didn’t need to shatter away as much ice to get your foot “closer in” so you feel more stable. The goal is always using less energy per pitch to accomplish that. And like I said, any of these subtleties only apply in a small percentage of foot placements on any given pitch. It takes many steep pitches to surface Also, don’t overlook the fact that Will’s advice in those videos is simplified and geared for noobs. I may be wrong, but I highly doubt he is burying his points deeper than I am. |
Mark Pilate wrote: My goal is to engage the secondary points with barely any kick at all. Just placing my front point gently on a small protrusion, I want to be able to engage the secondary points. I don't want to shatter away any ice to get my foot closer in. For me, I can climb harder and with less fatigue if my secondary points are even with or a tiny bit in front of the toe of my boot. However, I'm a pretty mediocre ice climber, so I certainly don't claim that my way is the best or most efficient. I don't doubt that your method works well for you. It's just not my preferred method for fitting crampons. |
Kai Larson wrote: Kai- really not trying to argue here or beat a dead horse, but rather trying to clarify that you and I are climbing EXACTLY the same. My “method” is exactly the same as you just described your method to be. If we both do exactly what you wrote, our crampons are sitting on the ice exactly the same and at the same angle, penetration, etc. the ONLY difference between us is that you’re standing about .375 of an inch further away from the ice and both the primary/secondary points than I am and thus your calves are seeing a just a bit more strain to maintain that position. It’s just applying geometry not any difference in method, technique, or principles. |
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Ferb, your thread has drifted significantly from your original question so I'll try to get it back on track for you. You've gotten some good advice so far. Picking from the advice you've gotten already, I'd like to help you narrow it down a bit. The advice for Snaggletooth crampons is good. They are a very good general mountaineering crampon that will cross over into technical terrain easily. I was surprised at how much I liked these crampons when I got them. I expected them to fill a niche role for me but I've put them into play in far more scenarios than I thought I would including technical ice climbing, general mountaineering, and alpine mixed. (the banter about secondary point positions is well beyond the scope of your question and is way more on the technical ice side of things. I'm not going to bother getting into that part and I'll leave it to you to start digging into it when you get to more tech climbs.) Similarly, the advice on axes has been good. The petzl summit is a good first axe (though maybe a little heavy compared to the myriad of options out there). There are a ton of options, some others would be the camp corsa nanotech, camp corsa alpine, or some of the Blue Ice axes (though their lighter axes are on the short side you'll quickly be climbing routes where short axes are better.) |
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NateC - until “Ferb” proves he’s not a bot and posts more or responds, it’s not worth your while responding to all these new accounts with lower case weird names. Kai and I are responding to AD’s question on secondary points and Snaggletooths If Ferb proves legit, my apologies. |
Mark Pilate wrote: Gah! I hadn't even considered a bot. Thanks, Mark. |
