Multi Pitch Belay Device for descent belay

Hi all, im looking for a belay device for multi pitch. For me (belayer) the following would be very importent. 

If i fall (Rockfall) or slip and let go the rope. the device should block so that the person i belay (descent) does not fall. Does such a belay device even exist on the market?

So far i have only found this: DMM Pivot. But i am not sure if this device blocks in a fall.

Thanks!

Tom,

How long have you been climbing?

Any ATC device that can be set up in guide mode such as the ATC Guide or Petzl Reverso or DMM Pivot or whatever Mammut makes would be fine. Alternatively you can use an assisted braking device like the Grigri or its knockoffs. 

I think that you're looking for BD Pilot, Jul-2, Mega Jul, Giga Jul, Mammut Smart, Click up, Revo, or possibly Gri Gri.. I think that only Revo claims to be truly hands off.

Ricky Harline wrote:

Any ATC device that can be set up in guide mode such as the ATC Guide or Petzl Reverso or DMM Pivot or whatever Mammut makes would be fine. Alternatively you can use an assisted braking device like the Grigri or its knockoffs. 

I don't have direct experience, but can a person belay a leader in guide mode? I would think that rope feed would be a problem.

Tom Wild wrote:

Hi all, im looking for a belay device for multi pitch. For me (belayer) the following would be very importent. 

If i fall (Rockfall) or slip and let go the rope. the device should block so that the person i belay (descent) does not fall. Does such a belay device even exist on the market?

So far i have only found this: DMM Pivot. But i am not sure if this device blocks in a fall.

Thanks!

If we are asking these questions I would not recommend multi pitch.

Ricky Harline wrote:

Any ATC device that can be set up in guide mode such as the ATC Guide or Petzl Reverso or DMM Pivot or whatever Mammut makes would be fine. Alternatively you can use an assisted braking device like the Grigri or its knockoffs. 

Okay, thanks. But what happens here if i let go of the rope as a belayer?

Victor Creazzi wrote:

I don't have direct experience, but can a person belay a leader in guide mode? I would think that rope feed would be a problem.

These devices operate in two different modes. You belay as normal to belay a leader and then switch to guide mode (which is auto locking) when belaying from above. 

Tom, if you let go in guide mode your belayer would be totally safe. They would be stuck mid pitch, but they couldn't possibly zip down the rope. Guide mode is the one time belaying can be truly hands free. Edit: see below post. Although it locks much more securely than even lead belaying with a grigri, it is still not smart to go completely hands free.

The guide mode on most devices I've used (ATC, Reverso, Kong Gigi, Edelrid Megajul, Edelrid Gigajul, Alpine Up) all take a lot of energy to pull the rope through and will start wearing your shoulders out after a few pitches.  A munter-hitch works great if your follower trusts you.  There apparently is also an assisted-braking adaptation of the Munter, but I haven't tried that (see: https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/the-auto-locking-munter-hitch ].

I personally use the Petzl Grigri+ on multipitch routes more than a couple of pitches long.  There are some caveats to using it in guide mode (check Youtube for those), but it is assisted braking, is effortless in pulling the rope through, and also allows you to lower your follower if needed with a simple redirect.  For me it is worth the extra weight to carry a Grigri along with a second belay device for rappelling.  

Don Frijoles wrote:

Frank,

Are you going to ask that question to every bot?

Not every bot, and that's the first time I've asked that question, but...you've got the idea. Think of it as a screening tool. For my entertainment and curiosity.

Ricky Harline wrote:

These devices operate in two different modes. You belay as normal to belay a leader and then switch to guide mode (which is auto locking) when belaying from above. 

Tom, if you let go in guide mode your belayer would be totally safe. They would be stuck mid pitch, but they couldn't possibly zip down the rope. Guide mode is the one time belaying can be truly hands free. 

I was assuming that the OP was asking about belaying a leader, I could be wrong.

Victor Creazzi wrote:

I was assuming that the OP was asking about belaying a leader, I could be wrong.

They talk of belaying a follower and showed a picture of an ATC like device set up in guide mode. 

If he wants a device that is auto locking in both lead mode and in guide mode than a Grigri or similar should be chosen, or the discontinued Smart Alpine, or the still manufactured Gigajul or Alpine Up. These devices can also auto lock on rappel, making them more versatile tools than single rope assisted braking devices such as the ATC Pilot or Smart 2.0.

Note that the Smart Alpine is by far the easiest device to use in guide mode of any device I have ever used and is also my favorite to rappel with by a significant margin. I bought a Kong Gigi because it is famously easy to use in guide mode, but it actually provides more resistance then the Smart Alpine! So I would recommend buying a used Smart Alpine if that style of device is desired. However using a grigri and rappelling on an ATC is clearly a good option also and is the most common solution. 

I highly encourage the usage of the grigri as a belay device in multipitch because it's much simpler to lower the second from above or build a three to one if necessary. All possible with an ATC but requires far more knowledge to accomplish. 

FrankPS wrote:

Not every bot, and that's the first time I've asked that question, but...you've got the idea. Think of it as a screening tool. For my entertainment and curiosity.

Our entertainment as well. The OP sounds like a 5.4 climber asking a 5.11 question.

Tom

what do you mean by descent belay

Ben Podborski wrote:

Tom

what do you mean by descent belay

Sorry for my english. I will belay the second climber. 

most devices are design so that the second climber, if falling, their rope cannot go down and drop them.

If you take a multipitch course they will teach you these things. 

Tom, hire a guide. As someone said before, if you’re asking this question you shouldn’t be multipitching.

Ricky Harline wrote:

Guide mode is the one time belaying can be truly hands free. 

Petzl explicitly puts the “skull and crossbones” next to the picture of letting go while belaying in plaquette mode.  We can all make our own risk tolerance decisions with our partners, but I don’t think it’s a good idea to state online without caveat that something is safe, when it’s explicitly against manufacturer recommendations.

Tom, if you let go in guide mode your belayer would be totally safe.

Do what?

Ben Podborski    wrote:

Tom

what do you mean by descent belay

Sorry for my english. I will belay the second climber. 

Fire, ready, aim!