I Need Help On My Quest To Find The Perfect Wide Fit Bouldering Shoe

I have spent the last few months looking everywhere and trying on tons of models trying to find my new aggressive bouldering shoes and so far I have completely struck out. I cannot seem to find a shoe that fits the way I want, while also be constructed the way I want, and at this point I need help. Let me explain:

The Problem

What I am essentially looking for is a wide fit shoe that is similar to the Solution or Drone, a medium stiff aggressive shoe. Unfortunately both of these models are far to skinny for my feet, and after a few years of breaking in shoes that do not fit well i've decided to try and be kinder to my feet. The problem is that my feet are high volume, I have a very wide toe box, and a very square toe profile. Also my toes are long so when they curl they become taller than my forefoot, so almost all shoes with pointy or low volume toe boxes give me horrible hot spots. Often also I cannot even get my foot properly in to the toe box of many shoes because they are just too narrow or low volume. 

The aggressive shoe I have loved the fit on best has been the UP Flagships. The wide and extremely high volume box fit me wonderfully, and there is even a spot for my 4th toe knuckle to bump out. And while I have enjoyed the flagship, I dislike how they have no midsole and become totally floppy after just a few months, I am looking for a shoe with a little more structure. I also have issues with the toe randing on flagships being too soft so my big toe hangs over the front edge once they have worn in, making it difficult to edge. 

The other wrinkle to this is that I want a shoe that does not have XS Grip. I am a larger climber and for me personally it just does not stick the way I want it to, but XS Grip 2 and any other rubber is fine. Unfortunately this takes Tenaya, Red Chili, Tulson Tolf, and others off the table. This leaves La Sportiva, Scarpa, and all the brands that produce their own rubber. 

What have I tried? (Only listing aggressive shoes)

Scarpa: Instinct VS; fit okay but the toe box is too low volume.

La Sportiva: Solution; way too narrow. Skwama; better but toe box is still too narrow, I believe these have reinforced rands in larger sizes so my big toe does not hang off and that is cool.

Mad Rock: Drone HV; way too narrow, I borrowed a broken in pair and the session made my toenail fall off.

Evolv: Phantom; fits well but softer than I want. New Shamen; the toe box is too low volume and is horribly painful, I also had issues with the rand being too soft.

Unparallel: Flagship; Fits well. TN Pro; Too narrow. Lyra; too narrow. Regulus; fit okay but not great, I felt like I was between sizes.

Butora: Acro; toe box is not square enough. Gomi; again toe box is too pointy.

Five Ten: Hiangle; too narrow (also the heel suctioned so well I got stuck in the shoe at the store and someone had to help rescue me)

Tulson Tolf: Grade; toe box is too pointy

So what is left?

Honestly I am not really sure anymore. I was interested in the 2018 Boreal Satori but they have recently announced they are completely redesigning the shoe for 2023 and it is on a new narrower last. I have looked at Acopa and some of the euro brands that are harder to get in the states and nobody seems to have a good option. It seems like all the best shoes for square toe boxes like the Phantom and Flagship are no-midsole softer models and they are just not what I am looking for. 

Does anyone have any suggestions? Are there other big-footed climbers out there who have my same struggle? At this point I am desperately running out of options and I just want to be kind to my feet. Thanks so much.

Sam Ehmann wrote:

It seems like all the best shoes for square toe boxes like the Phantom and Flagship are no-midsole softer models and they are just not what I am looking for. 

This isn't accurate regarding the Phantom. It's actually fairly stiff for a bouldering shoe. I'm not sure where you got the idea it was a soft no-midsole shoe (that's the Zenist in the Tenaya line). It's also a pretty sturdy shoe and holds its shape well through its lifespan.  I'd say go with the Phantom if it fits you. Its a good shoe.

Which version of the Shaman did you try? Have you tried on the Shaman Lace? To me the toe box of these feels nearly identical to the Phantom. If the Phantom fits you well, so should this. It is a bit stiffer though.

You could also look at the Tenaya Mastia. It is their wider-fit bouldering shoe, and the soft upper material of Tenaya shoes tends to make them fairly comfortable and forgiving for fit. While it has Grip 1 rubber, that shouldn't be a reason to exclude it. Your hangup on Grip 1 doesn't make any sense. If anything, it should work better for you - it is slightly stiffer that Grip 2, which in theory should be slightly better for a heavier climber. The differences are super minor though.  The Mastia isn't the stiffest bouldering shoe though, so it may be a bit softer a shoe than you are looking for.

My thoughts on the Phantom came mainly from talking with partners who have climbed in them a lot. The impression I have gotten is that similar to the flagships, once they have broken in they become a very floppy shoe but maybe I do need to give them a proper try. 

For the shamen laces, I have tried them on and they fit better, but I think I still had an issue with the toe box being too low volume on the outside edge. Despite the deep love bump for the big toe, the rest of the space is pretty slim so I had a crazy pressure point. I also had problems with my big toe pushing out the rands and overhanging right out of the box. I think I will give these another shot next time I have a chance though too.

Lastly the Mastias, one of my main climbing partners had two pairs of these and I got to try them a lot. Both he and I had serious issues with the rands being to soft and our toes overhanging the front edge. And again it is just personal preference for me against XS Grip, it just does not work the way I want it to and wears through quickly in my personal experience.

Reflecting on my fit issues some more, I think that toe box volume is really one of my biggest issues, especially on my 4th toe which I think is unusually long. This is what prevents many models which are wide enough for my foot like the Shamen and Instinct from actually fitting well, if they are too low volume in that area I just get totally crammed.

+1 on the phantom if that's what fits. I'm on my fourth pair. It has a stiff midsole but the rubber is really soft which gives it this odd sensitivity for smearing but you are still supported. The only time I would describe them as floppy is after a session where I leave them on for too long between goes and they get saturated with sweat, (I have sweaty feet) but they stiffen back up after they dry out. Putting on a brand new pair feels the same as putting on a blown out pair.

Scarpa shoe comparison

La Sportiva Shoe Comparison

I'd just add this from my experiences:

If it's a more structured shoe, meaning lined and more substantial leather upper with laces, one can usually size up a good deal to gain width without losing performance.

Velcro is faster, but doesn't allow quite the custom fit for my off shaped feet.

Austin Shaver wrote:

+1 on the phantom if that's what fits. I'm on my fourth pair. It has a stiff midsole but the rubber is really soft which gives it this odd sensitivity for smearing but you are still supported. The only time I would describe them as floppy is after a session where I leave them on for too long between goes and they get saturated with sweat, (I have sweaty feet) but they stiffen back up after they dry out. Putting on a brand new pair feels the same as putting on a blown out pair.

That is really good to know, I think I will give them a shot if nothing else seems to turn up!

LS Katanas?

Josh Z wrote:

LS Katanas?

The Katanas (at least the old version) are thin shoes, and I don’t think that they are as downturned as this person wants. 

Boreal are very wide and high volume I know hobbit footed people who love them, I have an average proportioned foot and I swim in them. The lynx are like a super wide katana, dharma like a super wide solution, even have the solid moulded heel cup. 

that guy named seb wrote:

Boreal are very wide and high volume I know hobbit footed people who love them, I have an average proportioned foot and I swim in them. The lynx are like a super wide katana, dharma like a super wide solution, even have the solid moulded heel cup. 

Oh this is very good to know. I had been eyeing other shoes in their range but kinda ignored the Dharma because they always list it as the sport climbing shoe. I think I will order a pair of Phantoms and a pair of Dharmas and see which fits me better!

Thank you for all of the input everyone :)

Sam Ehmann wrote:

Oh this is very good to know. I had been eyeing other shoes in their range but kinda ignored the Dharma because they always list it as the sport climbing shoe. I think I will order a pair of Phantoms and a pair of Dharmas and see which fits me better!

Thank you for all of the input everyone :)

Acopa Gama and Evolv Geshido would be good shouts. The Geshido is just about the widest shoe I've ever seen in terms of pure toebox width. Also maybe consider a simple flat-lasted shoe like the Defy or Butora Endeavor?

Instinct VS also has two volume versions: blue for lower volume, marketed as women's, and orange for higher. Which one did you try?

I am someone whose feet are so wide I can't even tie the laces on the LS Testerossa, but the blue Instinct fits me well. 

George M wrote:

Instinct VS also has two volume versions: blue for lower volume, marketed as women's, and orange for higher. Which one did you try?

I am someone whose feet are so wide I can't even tie the laces on the LS Testerossa, but the blue Instinct fits me well. 

I was climbing in the HV instincts for about a year. I was just lazy and did not want to add HV to most of the model names because I thought it made the whole list harder to read, but for the record every shoe listed above is the HV if they make multiple versions.

Have you tried the Solution Comp? I never liked the OG version but this new one, sized up, has been treating me very well. I'll be buying another pair. 

Alex Whitman wrote:

Have you tried the Solution Comp? I never liked the OG version but this new one, sized up, has been treating me very well. I'll be buying another pair. 

I have not tried out the Solution Comp but I am interested. I would be curious if anyone knows how the toe box compares between the two because that is what matters most to me with the old ones being too narrow. 

Looks like the solution comp is listed as lower volume on their comparison chart but that could be entirely due to the redesigned heel. Volume is such a fickle form of measurement that tells you almost nothing about how a shoe will actually fit...

I think climbing shoe companies should do a much better job providing useful information on how a shoe actually fits and feels on their websites. Some smaller brands like Red Chili give you info on width, arch length and toe box shape which is super useful. EB gives really good info on how a shoe will feel with stats like rubber hardness and actual midsole stiffness measurements (they measure how much force it takes to bend the shoe to a 45 degree angle, I wish everyone did this). I just feel like La Sportiva and Scarpa and Evolv and UP could do a much better job. Looking at pictures on a white background with embellished descriptions gives you so little idea of real shoe dimensions or characteristics. It makes buying shoes online a horrible guessing game...

Also I know that these kinds of stats do not work super well when comparing across brands, but at least if I have one shoe from Unparallel that fits me well, I could use the stats to compare to the rest of their range. And it would give me a ballpark for what to look for in other brands.

Have you tried the Scarpa Boostic? I have a moderately wide foot and I find the toe box very comfortable. Just got a pair of the new version and they seem like a great bouldering shoe, slightly softer in the midfoot and a better fitting heel.

+1 for Scarpa Boostic/Booster. Best shoes ever for my fat hogs

. wrote:

+1 for Scarpa Boostic/Booster. Best shoes ever for my fat hogs

Hey… those look like my feet.

Have you tried the katana? Theyre not super aggressive, but slightly down turned.

They are wide enough for my wide feet and aftet the initial break in are very comfortable while still being supportive and technical.

The best shoes ever made for wide, square feet are the Scarpa Veloces. These are very soft shoes, like sticky rubber slippers---not super stiff shoes like you're looking for. But I love them for bouldering and sport climbing. I pretty much only use those shoes nowadays for all types of climbing except crack climbing.

They fit these wide duck feet great:

Climbing in very soft shoes certainly takes a bit of skill that you don't get from climbing in stiff shoes--you have to push really hard with your toes. However, I've learned to really like the softness--I feel every feature of the rock, and I've learned to trust super small features for feet because I can feel how good they are.