Metolius master cams or C4 cams

Just wondering what is a better cam? Thanks! 

I'm not sure why anyone likes C4s. With Metolius you get an extra cam for the same weight, and the sizing differences compliments C4s well which is what your partner probably has. Dragons and Friends are like C4s but with extendy slings that mean you can take less draws. 

I have four racks of cams of different makes with the Totems and Dragons being tied for most used, then my ancient Metolius double stem Power Cams being next, and my C4s being dead last. Not sure why anyone buys C4s. Nothing wrong with em of course, but just about every other make does something C4s don't. BD hasn't innovated significantly with their cams in ages and it shows. 

This is all down to personal preference, but personally it's a super easy choice between the two for me and I would choose Metolius. Also I got my Power Cams reslung by Metolius a few years ago and the service was amazing and cheap. There's no way they made any money servicing those cams. It made me want to buy more Metolius products in the future. 

Jonas Helton wrote:

Just wondering what is a better cam? Thanks! 

Better how? Both will keep your ass off the ground if you use them correctly. Any specific things that you’re looking for?

I am trying to build a standard rack and was just wondering what is a better cam for doing that? I don’t really care about weight. 

Jonas Helton wrote:

I am trying to build a standard rack and was just wondering what is a better cam for doing that? 

The one major advantage C4s have is in understanding sizing. People will say green or .75s to mean a certain cam size, and with C4s it will actually be green and labelled .75. that's actually a pretty big advantage for starting out. 

In most other ways other brands will provide some significant benefit C4s can't provide. 

Ricky is definitely correct. It’s important to know that C4 #2 = hands, etc. I would recommend getting a single rack of C4s and a single rack of Master Cams. That way, you learn the sizing of C4s, and your Master Cams fit in some in between sizes. 

Mastercams:

• Cheaper
• Narrower head (key in small sizes)
• Lighter
• More flexible stem

C4's:

• Thumbloop
• More widely known and used
• Significantly better from size #2 and up
• More range

I would not buy C4's smaller than #1. From #0.3 - #0.75 the wide heads of C4's are an outdated design. Z4's fixed that. 

For sizes #3 and larger I would only buy C4's. They are best cams available. 

I would not buy mastercams at all. They are at their best in very small sizes. Their lobes are quite hard and don't bite well in slick rock. They are too floppy in large sizes and too stiff in small sizes. No thumbloop if you ever get into aid. Metolius can do better. They are a great company, but their cams and due for an overhaul.

BD Z4's, DMM Dragonflies, WC Zero Friends, all flavors of Aliens, and Totems (especially) are superior cams to ULMC's and C4's.

TCU’s are the only Metolius cams worth having.

C4’s are absolute workhorse cams and their trigger action is quite nice (as are the Z’s).

Tricky placements I love having Totems and TCU’s and offsets etc. , but for plug and go, C4’s are a great cam still.

That being said, I’ve found myself opting for my Wild Country’s the last couple years due to the slings, as WC’s and C4’s are so similar, the extendable slings on WC’s is quite nice. 

I have a singles rack of C4's from 0.4 to 3 and I know them pretty well so should I get another singles rack of C4's or a singles rack of Metolius cams

Jonas Helton wrote:

I have a singles rack of C4's from 0.4 to 3 and I know them pretty well so should I get another singles rack of C4's or a singles rack of Metolius cams

Dude anything but another rack of C4s. 

So I think I have decided that I am going to buy Metolius cams but now I am wondering what cam (Master, power, TCU, etc.) should I buy for an equivalent size of BD #1 and #2?

I think ULMC’s are great from the small gray up to green. (Red c4 equivalent). Anything bigger and they get too floppy for me, so I use C4’s for those sizes.  As an alternative, the alien revolution cams are just a tiny bit heavier and are really great.  Slightly more range, double sling, and the lobes bite harder into the rock.  Don’t worry about the reviews of the old plastic triggers breaking, they resolved that by switching to aluminum triggers. 

The C4 is really in need of an update, DMM Dragon 2, and WC friends are both better and use the same color scheme for size negating about half the comments praising the C4. Totems mostly also match the color scheme but being single axle their is a little mismatch.

If you already have a set of C4s then I would either get totems or ULMC, their were a lot of complaints about the Z4 and dragonflys when they first came out. Maybe the kinks got worked out, maybe it was just because they were something different who knows. 

I have dragons and totems, my primary partner has C4 and mismatch in smaller sizes, he likes the thumb loop when pumped so we tent to combine racks and climb C4 and totem.

Get the #2 WC Friend. It’s significantly larger in size than the BD 2, and fills the slight gap between the BD 2 and 3. Love it. 

Before you decide feel them for yourself. Maybe you'll love or hate the thumblessness of mastercams. Maybe you'll prefer the wider/narrower thumbloops on the powercams/TCUs. Maybe you won't care so buy whatever is cheap and available. All of them will catch you, it's just personal preference really.

Thanks everyone for the advice! I think I am going to buy the Metolius master cams!

Jonas Helton wrote:

Thanks everyone for the advice! I think I am going to buy the Metolius master cams!

Buy used (very durable cams)

jacob m s wrote:

DMM Dragon 2, and WC friends are both better and use the same color scheme

WC Friends #2 and #3 are ~1/2 size bigger and make up a good proportion of the fixed gear in the creek as a result.

Solid choice my friend!! Very happy with my ULMCs. 

As many have said, you might well be happier with C4's in 1-3 size. I personally don't mind the very slight flop with ULMC's in the larger size, but the narrow head width is def a drawback at #1 and larger, IMO. That said, the 8 ULMC is more like a 2.75 BD size, so it can be nice for tipped 2's but very snug 3's... If you get a deal on a whole set, maybe go for it, otherwise the previous advice about ULMC's up to .75 is solid advice, as UL C4's can be had for reasonable prices after they're 4-5 yrs old.

Ricky Harline wrote:

The one major advantage C4s have is in understanding sizing. People will say green or .75s to mean a certain cam size, and with C4s it will actually be green and labelled .75. that's actually a pretty big advantage for starting out. 

In most other ways other brands will provide some significant benefit C4s can't provide. 

People may say green or 0.75, but almost every guidebook in the US will say gear to X inches.  Before cams had colors, and before carabiners had colors, you would teach yourself by practice what size cam corresponded with how many inch size crack, what # cam that was.  You still have to be able to look at the crack size and visually measure the inch size.  But now, besides, as Rocrates says, 2" plus or minus = hands = #2 C4, and you also have the ease of seeing the color yellow, rather than just looking at the cam head size. The color helps you grab is quickly but you're still eyeballing the crack size. You'll develop your crack eye over time.

But the easiest way to adapt a Frankenrack to be used by all your partners is adopting the BD c4 colors as the standard, pairing the sizes up with the right color carabiner no matter what the brand, and re-slinging other brands with the BD color when you're changing out your old slings. Cams can last 40 years, the anodizing fades over time, but the color is refreshed when you have the cam re-slung. In practice, when climbing, I never look at cam color, just biner color.

For example, here's the 3 things I rack on purple: one is a Metolius mastercam, the second is an old WC friend that has been re-slung in purple, the last is a C4.

There are plenty of threads on racking strategies, the point is not to choose a particular brand (BD) just because of the color.