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Advice on first QuickDraws
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Hiya folks- me again. Was wondering if any of y’all have any recommendations on first quickdraws- I’d like to stick with solid gates for now, and would prefer wider dogbones. Weight is less important to me at this point in my early climbing career than comfort, reliability, and ease of clipping during “shitshitshitshitaaaaaghhhh” moments, of which there will hopefully be few. Was looking at the Petzl Djinn Axcess, but was wondering what other options/suggestions are out there. Greatly appreciate any and all input, smart alecks included. |
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The Djinn is what I highly recommend. No need to look further. You can grab the 6-packs on sale and 12 draws will do the trick at most areas. |
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Petzl carabiners are the gold standard imo |
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Get the Nylon, wider, and longer options for dogbones. Wider because it’s easier to hold onto for sport doggin’ Longer for less rope drag. Mostly get 16-18cm range or a couple even up to 25cm. Only need 4 of the shorter lengths like 12cm. Consider getting a couple (2-4) of the Edelrid Bulletproof Bent Gate carabiners (or complete draws) for use as anchor draws and for the first bolt. These high wear points will last longer with steel instead of aluminum. The bulletproof carabiner is top notch. Bonus, your rope will stay cleaner too. The Petzl Djinn draws are very very nice. The Spirt draw is the gold standard everyone compares to. Don’t get any sort of hook nose carabiner at all! Avoid hook nose carabiners for sport draws! For the rope end and the bolt end they are less nice than key lock or clean nose carabiners. For a budget friendly option, the Camp Orbit draws are awesome EDIT: on second look the Petzl Djinn are cheaper than the Orbit. Just get the Djinn. They are great. Add some Edelrid Bulletproof carabiners to the rope end for anchor draws. |
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any |
Climbing Weasel wrote: This is how you ask a question. Polite, informed, light hearted and not too long. Well done! I'm not a very experienced sport climber, my heart always longed for the bigger mountains but wasn't there a safety issue with "fluttering gates" on the lower carabiner of quickdraws with solid gates during falls? Is that resolved or debunked? |
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Ryan from Trango let me borrow a set of Reactions . I'm normally not picky when it comes to draws, but after I tried them, I sold mine and bought a set. Those aggressively bent gates just beg to be clipped. All of my partners feel the same way. They're comparable to the DMM Alpha or Petzl Spirit without the price tag. Highly recommended. The only downside is that you will gain weight from using them since you'll send all your projects faster than normal and find yourself with extra free time to drink beer.  |
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There are worse problems to have… thanks for the recco. |
Mike J wrote: Thank you! Yes, I believe it does occur but doesn’t impact safety as much as most believe (anybody else know about specifics here??) . If you have any solid gate carabiner around, smack the back of it on the palm of your hand. I think the click noise is the inertia of the solid gate overcoming the spring tension and flipping open a touch, then slamming back shut. The reasons I don’t think it’s much of an issue- the travel distance is minuscule, not even enough for the rope to escape if it did occur. Second, I can’t even imagine what kind of scenario would result in an abrupt slamming of the back of the carabiner directly in line with the gate. Third- I believe they would have stopped making solidgates if people were dying long ago. And fourth, even if there was enough of an impact that the gate did open all the way, that window of time is minuscule. Probably backclipping is more common and dangerous, but still something to keep an eye on to be sure. Anyway, that’s what I’ve been told at least. If anybody has any more info I’d love to hear it! |
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I started with the Petzl Djinn and think they are a fantastic beginner draw when you are looking for entry-level gear. But after trying my friend's DMM draws I've started to replace my Djinn with the DMM Shadow. You can barely touch the rope to the carabiner and it just snaps through. I'd definitely recommend taking a look at one and playing with it if you can find them in a store near you. |
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The djinn offer the best wear to price ratio, they're a lightweight tank and cost very little while being big and clip great. I know serial sporty people who have spirits last only a couple of month and djinns last a couple of years. The gate on dmm biners are very much personal preference, some people love them some people find them mid. They have such an incut gate if you're style of clipping doesn't suit it you won't have an amazing time, they're nice and cheap in the uk but for me not as nice as djinns imo. Gate flutter has caused biners to break in the past but you will tend to find a well designed sport biner will have a gate open strength of around 9 or 10kn, these forces you'll pretty much never see sport climbing. |
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To everyone suggesting djinn’s: the OP specifically says he wants a wider dog bone. The djinn’s, while more robust than others, are medium width at best IMO. They are certainly not my first choice when choking the cobra. To the OP: Probably not what you’re looking for, but most reputable companies (petzl, BD, DMM, even Camp, etc) offer a wide dogbone option. I would just find the cheapest option that has solid gates and a wide dogbone and get half short length and half long length. In my experience, the wider dogbone (for grabbing) and keylock biner (for cleaning, especially steep routes) are the only 2 features that have been useful year after year. Everything else goes unnoticed when I use a partners draws. |
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+1 to JT’s point. All/any draws from reputable companies mentioned above would be just fine. People become attached to their favorites because of slight variations of shape, the “snappiness” of the gate, the whatever works with your particular hand size, and your personal way of clipping the rope. But only YOU will know what that is, and the only way you would know is by trial. Just go to a good gear shop, fondle the draws, and pick whichever makes your heart sing, at a price point you are still willing to pay . ;) Seriously, unlike the “beginner shoes” that you would wear out in 6 months, your “beginner QuickDraws” will be with you for many years. Choose the ones you are happy with. You wont be replacing them soon. The difference between $14 and $18, over 8-10 years, is hardly noticeable, and $4 is not too much to pay for happiness. Over the years you will accumulate random draws from here and there, you’ll replace this biner, and that dogbone, and you will no longer have a matched rack of exactly-the-same draws, anyway. Just spent a weekend climbing with a group of people who had, between the 6 of them, every possible draw combination imaginable. They were all good. |
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The Djins seem like a very good choice. Go Spirit if you want bling. |
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FFS |
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I really like the gate action of the blue/silver draws with the grey dogboner. I think it might be the djinn thought I'm not sure. I have a set of Spirits but the action isn't as smooth and silky. The rope end clips real nice however. Anyway, climb on your friends gear for a bit and see what you like. I bought spirits (on sale) bc they are the gold standard, but I don't think they are as nice as folks make them out to be. In any case, buy the best draws you can afford. It was like thee or five dollar more per draw than the cheapo mad rock junk. This is stuff you're going to be using all the time, so spend your money wisely even if that means saving up. |
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Ok, thanks all for the info! I think I’ll probably go for the 17cm djinns, knowing the dog bones aren’t super nice for grabbing during spicy moments. I have large mitts so I’m thinking the larger biners in the rope end will compensate for the smaller dog bone. I’m addition I’ll check out the Edelrid bulletproof draws for the first bolt- thanks to whoever recommended that. I already have two delightfully overkill locking spirit/steel metolius D anchor draws for tr’ing. Thanks again, and happy climbing! P.S. Would it be a good idea to have an alpine draw or two for weird bolt paths? I’ve definitely come across some spots where the shorter draws introduced more drag than expected, but am hoping the longer versions will eliminate that in all but a few instances. Or is that something that’s seen very rarely?
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I find the djinns to be just fine to grab, the spirits maybe a hair nicer to grab. Dont bother with alpine draws, just stack draws if you need them longer. |
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If they’re just for sport climbs, get big and beefy solid gate biners and nylon dog bones. The super-light and narrow stuff can move around quite easily when you just want to clip it. If you’re getting some draws to bring with a trad rack or to the alpine, then I guess light is what you might want. FWIW, I’m happy with my 12 Djinn draws for everything I do. And I have one of the Metolius locking draws with the captive biners that’s pretty nice for anchors or for extending the rappel. I also have one of the Kong Panic draws, only used a couple times but is worth carrying on onsights. |
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am i the only one who hates the petzl djinns? i feel like when i am trying to clip it is like trying to dunk and getting stuffed at the rim. the basket is just too deep. the new black diamond draws seem like they similar overly-deep baskets. |
slim wrote: As a 5’7” white male basketball fan this seems like a subtle flex, I approve.
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