PSA: Use two devices when top rope soloing

https://americanalpineclub.org/news/2023/2/27/the-prescriptiontoprope-soloingfebruary-2023

Dude took a fifty footer and almost decked. Lots of stories of people taking huge whippers and significant injuries, including one dude who broke his back when he decked from 40' up when his Grigri didn't engage. 

I don't like to tell people what their personal safety level should be, so I'll word it this way: using one device is a half free soloing system wherein your climbing ability is your first point of protection. If you plan on falling and want a system that will 100% catch you then a two device setup is what you're looking for. One device setups are for people who wish to take on significantly more risk in exchange for a very small speed benefit. 

There are ways to back up one device without a second device such as tying backup knots, but this is a much larger inconvenience than just using two devices. Roll N Locks and Camp Lifts are very affordable if you don't want to buy a microtrax. 

TRS setups can be as complicated or as simple as you fancy, but dead simple ones exist without dogbone extensions or fancy devices. If you want an example of an extremely simple setup here you go:

Roll n Lock, microtrax, jumar, whatever attached as secondary device. Camp Lift or preferably Grand Wall uAscend (feeds slightly better) attached to same belay loop with a sling around the chest or a loop of elastic cord (pro tip from Mikey Schaefer) holding the device up with a carabiner. Photo here for clarity:

Is this the best imaginable TRS setup? No, it's not. But in hundreds of laps of using it I've never had the devices interfere, and single strand is usually sufficient although double is undoubtedly superior. The point is that most people end up using a single device system like in the above story because of complexity, so a dead simple setup like this one ensures that you'll actually use two devices. Also it costs about the same as one microtrax and feeds so well that a single water bottle or approach shoe attached to the bottom of the rope will allow it to self feed beautifully.

Use two microtraxes on two different strands or on one strand with that nifty device recently invented that keeps them apart. Use a locking draw to extend the upper or lower device if you want, the options are limitless, but an extremely simple two device setup that only adds maybe 30 seconds of faff per lap is extremely simple to implement and ought to be considered the standard of top rope soloing. 

Make your system more complicated if you want, but be aware that making your system less complicated than this will entail extremely significant risks and there is no guarantee that your system will catch you regardless of what single device you implement. 

I use a Gri-Gri with over hand on a bit to back things up, same set up I used when I set routes back in the day at the gym. I get a better work out this way try not to weight the rope find a stance to put out slack and tie over hand on a bit to back things up, works well for me :-)

Mike Arechiga wrote:

I use a Gri-Gri with over hand on a bit to back things up, same set up I used when I set routes back in the day at the gym. I get a better work out this way try not to weight the rope find a stance to put out slack and tie over hand on a bit to back things up, works well for me :-)

That's a redundant and totally valid system! The problem with it that I have encountered personally is that people often commit to this system and tell themselves they'll tie lots of backup knots and then don't. Plenty of stories in the TRS group on Facebook of people falling 30+ feet to their catastrophe knots. If that's a risk you're willing to take or you're willing to tie more knots then this is definitely a reasonable and safe solution. 

Personally I'm not keen on the potential of taking big falls while top roping, but I'm also a huge chicken and recognize plenty of people are willing to take that risk. 

Also self feeding systems are the shiz, which a grigri usually isn't for the first 30-50 feet. 

I am a little tired of telling this story but if someone has a chest ascender I can reproduce how mine failed on me. But the chest ascender can be camed open by the rope.

Like I said works well for me and been tested at the gym for years to work well and be safe!!! And a over hand knot on a bit is a safe knot I have seen it work well be over 50 years! And with the way route setters set these days with helmets,  safety glasses etc… they would not be allowed to set routes with a Gri-Gri if it was not safe! If your worried but redundancy, then using single locker Biner on a single belay loop on your harness would not be safe right :-) happy climbing Mike A.

On the rare occasions I TR solo I run two ropes, microtrax on one, grigri with backup knots on the other. A pain in the ass, but doable and about as redundant as it gets.

Mike Arechiga wrote:

Like I said works well for me and been tested at the gym for years to work well and be safe!!! And a over hand knot on a bit is a safe knot I have seen it work well be over 50 years! And with the way route setters set these days with helmets,  safety glasses etc… they would not be allowed to set routes with a Gri-Gri if it was not safe! If your worried but redundancy, then using single locker Biner on a single belay loop on your harness would not be safe right :-) happy climbing Mike A.

I think when analyzing safety it makes sense to look at what fails and what doesn't. The probability of a Grigri not engaging is low enough that most people could TRS with one thousands of times and not encounter it, but it's likely enough that it happens to people every year. 

Grigris (and every other device out there) WILL fail for someone at some point. With the exception of using inappropriate carabiners there simply aren't incidents of carabiners failing. 

Protect against real issues, not imaginary ones. 

I once had a gri gri fail on a wet fixed line. Happened to be right when I took my jumar off rope to go around knot. Was close to 200+ feet up on all overhung terrain. Took a 50+ foot whipper to the end of the rope that was 100ft up from the ground. Thank god I tied that stopper knot at end of rope that saved my life.

Back ups are good idea especially when ropes are wet 

I F wrote:

On the rare occasions I TR solo I run two ropes, microtrax on one, grigri with backup knots on the other. A pain in the ass, but doable and about as redundant as it gets.

I do this too, but without backup knots except on the ends of the ropes. It's actually nice to have two lines because it makes descending to repeat sections very easy. I have come across people soloing on a single microtrax, and thought it was pretty sketchy with the cam lockout feature, which I once accidently engaged while climbing.

I F wrote:

On the rare occasions I TR solo I run two ropes, microtrax on one, grigri with backup knots on the other. A pain in the ass, but doable and about as redundant as it gets.

No wonder you do this rarely!  Your setup eliminates most of the fun. I use camp lift top device w microtrax under it, and hold the lift up with 2 little goal zero biners i pilfered from a solar kit on an elastic cord with two knots. Connect each device with the DMM locksafe ceros, hands down best anti crossload biner out there (prevents flipping of biner AND flipping device).

I think failure of this system is less likely than getting killed on I-40 driving out to the forks. 

Rock climbing is dangerous by nature, if you over think anything, do not drive your car you could die behind the wheel!!! you are like the new rock climbing generation way over thinking things with lack of experience asking for advice here on MP and debate a thing your asking a question on??? I am Not here to argue your point just say what works safe and well for me!!! If you need some one to show you things I invite you to come climb with me at Shuteye or Fresno dome areas and maybe the teacher can become the student!!! Happy climbing Mike A.

j mo wrote:

No wonder you do this rarely!  Your setup eliminates most of the fun. I use camp lift top device w microtrax under it, and hold the lift up with 2 little goal zero biners i pilfered from a solar kit on an elastic cord with two knots. Connect each device with the DMM locksafe ceros, hands down best anti crossload biner out there (prevents flipping of biner AND flipping device).

I think failure of this system is less likely than getting killed on I-40 driving out to the forks. 

I'm mostly using it for forerunning/cleaning new routes before bolting. I have personally had edges I wasn't aware of slice through the sheath of a rope twice now. Also the risk of rockfall hitting a rope is always there. 

Mike Arechiga wrote:

….you are like the new rock climbing generation way over thinking things with lack of experience asking for advice here on MP and debate a thing your asking a question on???

Mike your reading comprehension is about a 3/10 in this thread.  

Merits of the thread aside, Ricky wasn’t asking for your advice, it was clearly stated as a PSA and was giving his own advice.  

He also never made any suggestion that the Gri Gri is unsafe.   He validated your choice and just mentioned some valid caveats  

While you say you’re not here to argue, you’re doing a good job of it for no reason.  

 I don’t think anyone who is into TRS, isn’t aware of your single GriGri method.  It’s the first method a raw clueless noob would employ naturally.    Not saying anyone who does it (I have) is a raw clueless noob, just that it’s the most obvious choice to start from and expand upon  

j mo wrote:

No wonder you do this rarely!  Your setup eliminates most of the fun. I use camp lift top device w microtrax under it, and hold the lift up with 2 little goal zero biners i pilfered from a solar kit on an elastic cord with two knots. Connect each device with the DMM locksafe ceros, hands down best anti crossload biner out there (prevents flipping of biner AND flipping device).

I think failure of this system is less likely than getting killed on I-40 driving out to the forks. 

I love the idea of using the goal zero “biners” so you can’t hang yourself.  I haven’t tried the DMM locksafe, but the Petzl Omni is also a great biner for avoiding cross loading. 

PSA on the PSA: Dude get some bungee and get that nylon noose off of your neck. Jesus Christ

Anonymous Coward wrote:

PSA on the PSA: Dude get some bungee and get that nylon noose off of your neck. Jesus Christ

Slings on necks are dangerous with large falls when inversion is a possibility. Falls on this system are sub one inch; you don't so much fall as rest on the rope. I use elastic cord now but most people have slings lying around and I've used them for hundreds of laps with no problem. I'm trying to illustrate how good of a system you can build with what you mostly have lying around already. 

I think the primary reason to upgrade to elastic is a quality of life improvement. I'm skeptical that there's any significant threat posed by slings in a system where falls are so tiny and gentle. 

Mike Arechiga wrote:

Rock climbing is dangerous by nature, if you over think anything, do not drive your car you could die behind the wheel!!! you are like the new rock climbing generation way over thinking things with lack of experience asking for advice here on MP and debate a thing your asking a question on??? I am Not here to argue your point just say what works safe and well for me!!! If you need some one to show you things I invite you to come climb with me at Shuteye or Fresno dome areas and maybe the teacher can become the student!!! Happy climbing Mike A.

Would love to climb with ya down there some time Mike. And I'm sure I'd learn a lot from ya. I'll shoot you a message after these storms pass. =) 

Holy shit why do you have a sling around your neck?! Coward dude is right. Buy a chest harness. You're putting too much faith in your system. 

thomas ellis wrote:

Holy shit why do you have a sling around your neck?! Coward dude is right. Buy a chest harness. You're putting too much faith in your system. 

What is the failure mode wherein it would be a problem? It's very clearly a problem and unacceptable for LRS, but why specifically is it a problem for TRS?

You are preaching redundancy but failing to see any flaw on your part leading to a slip of greater than 12"? Could leave you hanging by your neck. 

Show me one TRS sling neck death?