EddieBauer Bye Bye Pro-Team

Greg Kosinski wrote:

What is a pro climber besides an influencer that pulls real hard? They fulfill the same role for outdoor companies, to try to convince people to buy their gear. 

Pro athletes are "influencers" in the most literal definition of the word but usually they're not "influencers" in the sense that they aren't shilling whatever comes their way by pretending to have a "lifestyle" and misrepresenting their reality (I know there's plenty of counterpoints but on average this is true). I think there's an element of authenticity when people are pushing the actual limits of a sport instead of pretending to be experienced climbers - I trust a lot of the gear Patagucci makes because their athletes are part of the design process. If their gear was only featured and used by "average" athletes I would trust it less. 

I agree with you that this is in line with the breakdown of some of the norms and expectations in climbing as the sport explodes and gets diluted. I want and expect companies that make gear to fund the trips and expeditions that get me inspired and excited, partly because it's good for their bottom line but also partly because it supports a cohesive climbing culture. Seeing a pro sponsored athlete do some new route expedition to Baffin or the Karakorum is fucking rad and I don't want that part of our culture to die out in favor of high follower counts and "lifestyle" Instagram shoots at Joshua Tree. As much as I support the goal of diversifying the athlete pool, there's ways to do that without canning all of your high-end athletes.

Bunch of dimwits.

It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with social media influence.

Why? Use your puny brain at least once in a while. If the cause were social media influence, then ask this question "why no other major outdoor apparel companies have sacked their "high profile" professional sponsored athletes?"

The answer is very simple. 

Eddie Bauer has never been a top tier, major, outdoor apparel company. It is merely an ordinary lifestyle apparel company the likes of which are Gap, American Eagle, and so on and so forth. It just happens to have a First Ascent clothing line. Their business model has never been the top tier, high price point, high margin position. Their stuffs go on deep sales all the time. First Ascent Guide Pro Pants can be had for like $35. T-shirts for like $20. Extremely low price position. As such, Eddie Bauer simply doesn't have the brand image and doesn't attract those who would shell out top dollars. When was the last time you think of Eddie Bauer when shopping for outdoor apparels? 

Eddie Bauers are catered to ordinary people for their daily normal ordinary life. This business model, consequently, doesn't have the profit margin and the need to employee top tier professional athletes.

If social media influencers are that better at promoting products, why don't North Face, Arc'teryx, Patagonia all sack all of their professional sponsored athletes and just use social media influencers instead?

Eddie Bauer just don't need and shouldn't employee top dollars for top professional athletes. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with encroachment from social media influence.

Big Red wrote:

Pro athletes are "influencers" in the most literal definition of the word but usually they're not "influencers" in the sense that they aren't shilling whatever comes their way by pretending to have a "lifestyle" and misrepresenting their reality (I know there's plenty of counterpoints but on average this is true). I think there's an element of authenticity when people are pushing the actual limits of a sport instead of pretending to be experienced climbers - I trust a lot of the gear Patagucci makes because their athletes are part of the design process. If their gear was only featured and used by "average" athletes I would trust it less. 

I agree with you that this is in line with the breakdown of some of the norms and expectations in climbing as the sport explodes and gets diluted. I want and expect companies that make gear to fund the trips and expeditions that get me inspired and excited, partly because it's good for their bottom line but also partly because it supports a cohesive climbing culture. Seeing a pro sponsored athlete do some new route expedition to Baffin or the Karakorum is fucking rad and I don't want that part of our culture to die out in favor of high follower counts and "lifestyle" Instagram shoots at Joshua Tree. As much as I support the goal of diversifying the athlete pool, there's ways to do that without canning all of your high-end athletes.

I'd agree for the most part. I'd say that 'authenticity' is part of the brand for many people, such as Patagucci, and it works for them. 

I think what's jarring is that for the most part, in the past 'outdoors' and 'authenticity' are synonymous. This is showing a breakdown between the two. Were they ever actually the same thing?

Jake Foster wrote:

Bunch of dimwits.

It has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with social media influence.

Why? Use your puny brain at least once in a while. If the cause were social media influence, then ask this question "why no other major outdoor apparel companies have sacked their "high profile" professional sponsored athletes?"

The answer is very simple. 

Eddie Bauer has never been a top tier, major, outdoor apparel company. It is merely an ordinary lifestyle apparel company the likes of which are Gap, American Eagle, and so on and so forth. It just happens to have a First Ascent clothing line. Their business model has never been the top tier, high price point, high margin position. As such, Eddie Bauer simply doesn't have the brand image and doesn't attract those who would shell out top dollars. When was the last time you think of Eddie Bauer when shopping for outdoor apparels? 

 This business model, consequently, doesn't have the profit margin and the need to employee top tier professional athletes.

If social media influencers are that better at promoting products, why don't North Face, Arc'teryx, Patagonia all sack all of their professional sponsored athletes and just use social media influencers instead?

because the brand of eddie bauer isn't built on authenticity and outdoor adventure like those other brands are. Those other brands image is more wrapped up in actual outdoor adventure and so they employ actual athletes because it's a part of that image.

Bale wrote:

… Still seems strange though, you would think John Q Public would buy stuff pimped by real climbers over a Tik Tok personality. Whatever. 

Think about it. (the company did). It’s like seining for minnows.  The bulk “minnows” the company wants to scoop up (new casual Gumby’s) are best met and netted by Tik Tok influencers and their ilk.

Serious/experienced climbers (or practitioners of similar sports) simply are fewer in numbers and not that influenced by social media BS.  The performance talks.  It’s either there or not.  Ironically, you don’t need “legitimacy” to sell to the “legitimate”.  You need to perform.   The money cow is the illegitimate masses, and for that, the irresistible “opiate of the people” is social media 

Can anyone here name team members for any company?  (Aside from knowing at a high level that  “so and so“ is a sponsored climber -by several usual suspects) 

Have you ever considered a purchase based on a “team member” promoting it?  

Jake Foster wrote:

Eddie Bauer has never been a top tier, major, outdoor apparel company. It is merely an ordinary lifestyle apparel company the likes of which are Gap, American Eagle, and so on and so forth. It just happens to have a First Ascent clothing line. Their business model has never been the top tier, high price point, high margin position. Their stuffs go on deep sales all the time. First Ascent Guide Pro Pants can be had for like $35. T-shirts for like $20. Extremely low price position. As such, Eddie Bauer simply doesn't have the brand image and doesn't attract those who would shell out top dollars. When was the last time you think of Eddie Bauer when shopping for outdoor apparels? 

Eddie Bauers are catered to ordinary people for their daily normal ordinary life. This business model, consequently, doesn't have the profit margin and the need to employee top tier professional athletes.

If social media influencers are that better at promoting products, why don't North Face, Arc'teryx, Patagonia all sack all of their professional sponsored athletes and just use social media influencers instead?

Eddie Bauer just don't need and shouldn't employee top dollars for top professional athletes. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with encroachment from social media influence.

This.
If you live outside the US you would never have heard of the brand, first and only time I did was on this forum.
Looking at their website nothing seems very appealing anyway, maybe they did a favor to those athletes. 

Mark Pilate wrote:

Can anyone here name team members for any company?  

Megos Petzl
Honnold the North face
Chin the north face
zimmerman Exped
Ondra Mammut, la sportiva, montura
Bouin BlackD
Caldwell La sportiva
Oriane Bertone Scarpa, BlackD
Jeff mercier RAB

etc...

Have you ever considered a purchase based on a “team member” promoting it?  

No, but if it's good enough for them chances are it's good enough for me.

Fabien M wrote:

Megos Petzl
Honnold the North face
Chin the north face
zimmerman Exped
Ondra Mammut, la sportiva, montura
Bouin BlackD
Caldwell La sportiva
Oriane Bertone Scarpa, BlackD
Jeff mercier RAB

etc...

No, but if it's good enough for them chances are it's good enough for me.

Lol.  

Maybe it’s just my mushy-Covid brain, but in my head there’s a big gray mush of “Big names” /Professional climbers and a big gray mush of “legit companies” , and I know they go together somehow, but I’d never be able to match them up.

And on the “good enough for them”… topic

How do you know it’s legit?  They got it free and/or were paid for it to be “Their choice”.   Is that really the one they’d choose if they had to spend their own money?  I just don’t put much stock into it. 

Eddie Bauer used to be a respected outdoor brand bitd, right? (Nice wool shirts, nylon anoraks maybe, idk, before my time). My guess is they hired a TNF- style team to get a slice of the modern, technical Patti/ Arc/ MH/ TNF pie, and now they’ve decided to get back in their lane. I was never tempted by the First Ascent series. 

Mark Pilate wrote:

Lol.  

Maybe it’s just my mushy-Covid brain, but in my head there’s a big gray mush of “Big names” /Professional climbers and a big gray mush of “legit companies” , and I know they go together somehow, but I’d never be able to match them up.

And on the “good enough for them”… topic

How do you know it’s legit?  They got it free and/or were paid for it to be “Their choice”.   Is that really the one they’d choose if they had to spend their own money?  I just don’t put much stock into it. 

Good on ya for being impervious to marketing! I’ve got a game for you: watch Meru and take a whiskey shot every time you see a TNF logo;) 

Mark Pilate wrote:

Lol.  

Maybe it’s just my mushy-Covid brain, but in my head there’s a big gray mush of “Big names” /Professional climbers and a big gray mush of “legit companies” , and I know they go together somehow, but I’d never be able to match them up.

And on the “good enough for them”… topic

How do you know it’s legit?  They got it free and/or were paid for it to be “Their choice”.   Is that really the one they’d choose if they had to spend their own money?  I just don’t put much stock into it. 

In a sense you re right as well but when you re linking your brand to, lets say "kara and nate" from YT rather than , let say Brett Harrington, you re gonna appeal to different people.
I remember a thread with Cotopaxi founder about that, you can't be consider a "core"* brand and be associated with noobs.
If you re ok to be a noobs company it's totally fine but it doesn't seems to be the way Eddy bauer wanted to be perceived, or at least it wasn't.

*in my mind "core" means top quality for the user but also top profit margine for the brand, you ll not see me worrying about the financial situation of Scarpa, BlackD or Petzl.

Jake Foster wrote:

Eddie Bauer has never been a top tier, major, outdoor apparel company. 

Maybe not an apparel company but certainly a top outdoor clothing company.

Back in the 1960's when I was a wee lad, Eddie Bauer some of the best that could be had. EB practically invented down clothing and made good sleeping bags. Until a few years ago, I had an old coat that was originally my dad's, a 60/40 shell built over a down jacket with a fur collar, which was my go to winter coat for many years. On my first trip to Nepal, I brought an EB sleeping bag because it was the lightest down bag I could find.

In 1964 when they were at the top of their game, EB equipped the successful USA Everest expedition.

They went the way of all outdoor clothing companies when they discovered that there was a better profit in t-shirts and jeans. Their tried to get back into outdoor business but it doesn't seem to have worked.

The North Face, which used to be a fine company, now mostly sells t-shirts and loves rappers in puffy down coats.

Big Red wrote:

Seeing a pro sponsored athlete do some new route expedition to Baffin or the Karakorum is fucking rad and I don't want that part of our culture to die out in favor of high follower counts and "lifestyle" Instagram shoots at Joshua Tree.

I don't think modern big-name scholarships are necessary for people to do rad stuff.  Many of the raddest ascents in the history of alpinism were done before large corporate sponsorship existed, and even in today's age many cutting-edge things are being done by people who aren't sponsored, or at least have a "normal job" and are not exclusively climbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojciech_Kurtyka

http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web21f/newswire-first-ascent-southeast-ridge-annapurna-iii

https://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13201216084

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/paul-ramsden-interview-piolet-dor-number-four-for-the-collection

Kyle Tarry wrote:

I don't think modern big-name scholarships are necessary for people to do rad stuff.  Many of the raddest ascents in the history of alpinism were done before large corporate sponsorship existed, and even in today's age many cutting-edge things are being done by people who aren't sponsored, or at least have a "normal job" and are not exclusively climbers.

No doubt, and that stuff is even more inspirational. But sponsorship-based adventures are still a big part of rad stuff that gets publicized that I would hate to see die out.

As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death

I got my cardigan on and my khakis are pressed

‘cause I’ve been chuffin and doggin so long that

Even my EB sponsor is gone

....doh, wrong website. my bad.

The Discovery Channel used to be about Science - until they realized they could make way more money with fake gold mining shows, fake survival shows with naked people and shows with 1,000lb sisters...

I haven't bought EB in years...

When I see publicly available verified income amounts for "pro" climbers or real contracts with actual numbers filled in, then I will pay attention to news like this. For most "pros," as far as I can tell, sponsorship is a small premium on top of something else that is never discussed. Trust funds, occasional checks from mom and dad, sinecures, unmentioned real job, who knows what else, but sponsorship for most is a limited amount of "free" gear and very occasional cash. Contacts in the climbing industry have made it it really clear to me that outside of a very small circle nobody is actually making a real living from just climbing. Whether TikTok/Insta is selling entry level shoes to the masses or climbing star X is, that doesn't matter to brands anymore. They want to move product, especially if the brand is owned by a bigger publicly-traded company as TNF or Five Ten is. Re: Five Ten, read up on the current murky financials for Adidas to see what pressure Five Ten might be under right now. The magic 8-Ball is reading "Outlook not so good."

Real pro athletes (and/or their agents) will tell you all day what they make, while climbing "pros" are either too embarrassed to tell you the truth or are bound by an NDA because their sponsors are reluctant to reveal this information. This kind of financial ecosystem trends toward a monoculture (see the performing arts such as music, acting, etc.) marked by nepo babies and a general disconnect from the lives of regular folk. "Dirtbags" traveling constantly to different countries/continents while owning a Sprinter van and a condo in Boulder and an Air BnB setup in Bishop are not relatable people. It costs a f*ckton money to live in America in 2023, with most supporting it with a regular job that doesn't allow anything like that kind of time off. Not going to say, good for EB and its balance sheet, but I am guessing a lot of outdoor brands are taking a hard look at ROI and the plethora of young people willing to be exploited for free or next to it on the socials and saying to themselves, we don't need to underwrite cutting edge climbers anymore. The hard truth is they are probably right.

If the TNF pro team came up with/green lighted this color scheme/graphics pattern, I want them all fired now.  

Folks have already pointed out that back in the day, Eddie Bauer was legit. They remained incredibly good gear, well into the 90s. I still have a pair of EB mittens that I love. Rare that I wear mittens, but the gear itself is fantastic. I think climbers forgot about that history, so First Ascent faced the same brush-off that Reebok's climbing shoe line did. Doesn't matter that the people behind the line are legit, wannabe dirt bag climbers say "you have a store in the mall, you're just cashing in".

I have a theory about The North Face: theit entire lifestyle/slope style lines exist to subsidize the sale of the Mountain 25, VE-25, and whatever their extreme-alpine tents are called. There is no way they are making any money on those tents. So in that sense, climbers have won the battle for TNF's soul. It's just that this is what winning that battle really looks like.

My closet is full of excellent outdoor brands that were only ever lifestyle brands: Moonstone, Cloudveil, Dana Designs. The simple fact of the matter is that if a company is to outlive it's founder, eventually it has to grow. Growth in the outdoor space means appealing to the folks who wear their $1600 hard shell system to walk their dog in Central Park.

EB definitely still has some decent gear, you just need to know where to look…

Their line of FA guide pants are fantastic and can commonly be found on sale for $40. I dare you find a better pair of soft shell pants at that price…And for someone like me who laughs at the thought of spending $150 on a pair of soft shell pants, they fit the bill just fine for 95% of what I need them for.