Warm clothing for bigger/colder mountains

Hey all,

I’m headed to Peru this August to trek the Huayhuash and bag some peaks (~5750m max). I’ve been wanting a warmer down jacket for a while and this trip has given me a real reason to splurge.

My current system is as follows:

MH synthetic sun hoodie as a base layer

Arc’teryx Delta Lt fleece or occasionally a warmer North Face fleece (not sure of model, rarely use it)

Arc Atom LT as my “warm” layer

Arc Beta SV as my shell. 

I live in the PNW so I never get out in really cold temperatures, but when it starts to get much below freezing my current setup is not warm enough. I love my Atom LT as a daily piece and it was awesome when I did SAR, but it’s not great for the cold and is heavy + bulky for the warmth you get. The Delta LT is handy but also not particularly warm, it adds maybe 10°(F) of warmth to the Atom LT.

What recommendations would you make? I’m not really concerned about budget although I’m partial to Arc’teryx because I get a pretty sweet discount and like the fit. Thanks!

This might help

https://www.reddit.com/r/arcteryx/comments/10af0qh/down_jackets_decisions_and_combating_analysis/

Colin Haley's layering system 

I really like running the double puffy + belay jacket system, lots of flexibility 

My layers are very similar to yours but I have a Rab Positron Pro parka for my final layer that goes over everything else. Works great for when you stop for breaks, just throw it on and instant comfort. I used it on the summit of Chimborazo at over 6200 meters and used multiple times on Cayambe due to lots of stopping for avalanche tests. 

• Rab Positron Pro
• Patagonia AlpLoft Parka or Grade VII Parka: (Though discontinued)
• Arc'teryx Alpha Parka
• Rab Mythic Ultra

Reference this down jacket indicator.

Down parkas are pretty simple, they're mostly just some nylon filled with feathers.  There's lots of stuff on the market that would be appropriate for <6000m in the Andes, no need to spend $1000 on a bag of feathers.

• MH Phantom Parka
• MH Nilas Parka
• Rab Neutrino Pro
• Patagonia Fitz Roy Parka (discontinued I think)
• OR Super Alpine
• MB Alpine Parka
• ME Kryos
• (Lots of others too)

Look for sales, or deals on used jackets; great thing about down is it works for a long time so used gear is a great way to save some money.

Other thoughts about your setup:

-With regard to the Beta SV, that's a lot more jacket than most climbers will use in the alpine.  There are much lighter and simpler (and cheaper) hardshells out there.  It will definitely do the job though, if you already own it and want to bring it.

-Consider an "active insulation" piece instead of (or in addition to) the Atom LT.  More breathability while moving can help keep you from getting wet from the inside.  This would be something like the Nano Air, Proton LT, or even another fleece layer.

-Consider a wind jacket (Houdini, Squamish, Kor Preshell, etc.).  This adds a lot of flexibility to a system for minimal cost and weight.

Hard to go wrong with the MH Phantom Parka, especially for the price. I own 5 down parkas and it gets by far the most use and would be more than adequate for what you need.

Claire Copriviza wrote:

The HIMALI Altitude Parka is a great piece for ~6,000m peaks, and is an awesome belay/camp parka. You get a lot of jacket for the price too.

Marketing director for HIMALI.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-copriviza-24a4a1123?original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

FrankPS wrote:

Marketing director for HIMALI.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-copriviza-24a4a1123?original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

Nice. And her 3 posts since creating her MP account 3 days ago all promote her brand. 

Seems authentic. 

If you are size xl, I have a Valandre Immelman for sale at a killer price.  

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/123766498/valandre-immelman-puffybelay-jacket

Your layers are a good start for sure. A few notes from a guy who has frozen his ass off in the Cordillera Blanca on more than one occasion:

• I think something in the realm of a MH Phantom would be a reasonable addition to your current kit.  While 95% of the time, the CB’s weather has felt to me a lot like the PNW in the summer, I’ve had a few experiences where things got cold enough to a point where I personally start to consider it an objective hazard without this sort of clothing (-30ish and below feeling). This has almost always been due to wind around sunrise. 
• Same note above, but with hardshell pants. I use the Arcteryx Beta AR pants. 
• Being comfortable with and knowing the limits of your gloves and boots are as important as the jackets. 
• As a “nice to have”, I’d personally ditch the fleeces for a medium down jacket that can fit over the Atom LT in the realm of a Cerium LT or MH Ghostwhisperer. Not critical if you aren’t planning on using this sort of thing again though.

I would also recommend a vest, either the Nano Air or Micropuff. They weigh very little, take up very little room, and add a significant amount of warmth potential to your system and are a lot more versatile than a traditional synthetic jacket because they regulate your temp much more effectively.

Chris’s suggestions above RE: a light down jacket are sound. If your layers were, as an example:

Sun hoodie

Insulated vest 

Atom LT or Nano Air

Ghost Whisperer

Hardshell

MH Phantom

Those would be more than adequate and wouldn’t be too bulky or heavy. Personally I would only use the down jackets in camp, and if the conditions warrant, you could even leave the GW home. I try to bring as few down pieces as I can on longer climbs because they’re hard to dry and only get used when I’m standing around

What does the rest of your clothing system look like? Pants, gloves, boots, head?

Chris C wrote:

Your layers are a good start for sure. A few notes from a guy who has frozen his ass off in the Cordillera Blanca on more than one occasion:

• I think something in the realm of a MH Phantom would be a reasonable addition to your current kit.  While 95% of the time, the CB’s weather has felt to me a lot like the PNW in the summer, I’ve had a few experiences where things got cold enough to a point where I personally start to consider it an objective hazard without this sort of clothing (-30ish and below feeling). This has almost always been due to wind around sunrise. 

I agree with Chris's assessment here.  The high altitude air (dry and low density) in that range gets COLD at night, and then as soon as the sun comes up it gets hot.  Also, remember that you are limited to a much lower output at those altitudes so you simply don't generate the warmth you're used to in the PNW.  Air density at 5000m is 60% that at sea level so you just can't move fast.  As a result you may be colder than you'd expect for a given set of layers.

• Same note above, but with hardshell pants. I use the Arcteryx Beta AR pants. 

FWIW, I have only used soft shells down there (and other high altitude places).  This is subjective so there isn't a right or wrong answer, people are surely successful with both types of pants.  If you decide to go with hard shells, you'll definitely need a separate pair of pants for the trekking and moving around base camps.

I don't like wearing down as part of my "active" system, especially under a hard shell, because of moisture issues, but that's also probably personal preference.

(Lots of these nuances don't really matter that much and you can climb most peaks with any random setup, but nerding out about gear is pretty fun regardless!)

I really like the Phantom Parka for a jacket in that category, especially since it often seems to be on sale.

It has a good long length, full box baffles everywhere, good cuffs, a drawcord that doesn’t create a cold spot, a good hood and collar, and an outer shell thats a great balance of tough vs lightweight.

John Edwin wrote:

I would also recommend a vest, either the Nano Air or Micropuff. They weigh very little, take up very little room, and add a significant amount of warmth potential to your system and are a lot more versatile than a traditional synthetic jacket because they regulate your temp much more effectively.

Chris’s suggestions above RE: a light down jacket are sound. If your layers were, as an example:

Sun hoodie

Insulated vest 

Atom LT or Nano Air

Ghost Whisperer

Hardshell

MH Phantom

Those would be more than adequate and wouldn’t be too bulky or heavy. Personally I would only use the down jackets in camp, and if the conditions warrant, you could even leave the GW home. I try to bring as few down pieces as I can on longer climbs because they’re hard to dry and only get used when I’m standing around

What does the rest of your clothing system look like? Pants, gloves, boots, head?

Thanks for the suggestions! I’m currently running icebreaker thermal bottoms + Arc Gamma AR soft shells, newer system for me and haven’t really put it to the test yet, but seems to work well so far. Trying to ditch hardshell pants as I run pretty warm in my legs. I’ve got Arc Venta gloves and some OR Denali hardshell mitts which are bomber and probably overkill. My boots are old Nepals, deciding between a new pair of Nepal Cubes or Phantom Techs, but mostly just looking for a good deal. The weight on the Scarpas is super attractive but unsure about the warmth. 

Phantom Techs are warmer than Nepals for sure, but they are more expensive and less durable.  I’ve used double boots down in Peru but they might not be needed below 6000m?

You probably want gloves in between Venta (in insulated softshell) and high altitude mitts.  Something with some insulation that you can still have dexterity while wearing.

Kyle Tarry wrote:

Down parkas are pretty simple, they're mostly just some nylon filled with feathers.  There's lots of stuff on the market that would be appropriate for <6000m in the Andes, no need to spend $1000 on a bag of feathers.

• MH Phantom Parka
• MH Nilas Parka
• Rab Neutrino Pro
• Patagonia Fitz Roy Parka (discontinued I think)
• OR Super Alpine
• MB Alpine Parka
• ME Kryos
• (Lots of others too)

Look for sales, or deals on used jackets; great thing about down is it works for a long time so used gear is a great way to save some money.

Other thoughts about your setup:

-With regard to the Beta SV, that's a lot more jacket than most climbers will use in the alpine.  There are much lighter and simpler (and cheaper) hardshells out there.  It will definitely do the job though, if you already own it and want to bring it.

-Consider an "active insulation" piece instead of (or in addition to) the Atom LT.  More breathability while moving can help keep you from getting wet from the inside.  This would be something like the Nano Air, Proton LT, or even another fleece layer.

-Consider a wind jacket (Houdini, Squamish, Kor Preshell, etc.).  This adds a lot of flexibility to a system for minimal cost and weight.

Beta SV is definitely overkill, bought it for pretty terrible conditions I try pretty hard to avoid on climbs for fun, but it works and I don’t mind the extra features. 

I found a Patagonia R1 for super cheap that seems like could work as a decent active layer in addition to the other fleece, but not sure how I feel about bringing 2 fleece along with me, feel like there’s a better option. If anyone has experience with the R1 I’d love some input.

Thanks for the parka suggestions, I’ll definitely keep my eyes peeled for a sale.

Connor Baker wrote:

I found a Patagonia R1 for super cheap that seems like could work as a decent active layer in addition to the other fleece, but not sure how I feel about bringing 2 fleece along with me, feel like there’s a better option. If anyone has experience with the R1 I’d love some input.

R1s are sweet, they've been a popular staple in Patagonia's lineup for a long time.  It's a very similar piece to your Arcteryx Delta.  I think it's probably not "ideal" to have two close-fitting stretchy fleece layers, just getting them layered nicely could be a bit of pain (this is pretty subjective though).  if you want a second fleece for warmth (not a bad option at all), you might be happier with a normal full zip fleece sweater/jacket instead of a second technical base/mid layer.  Most brands have a layer like this and fleece is fleece so you can shop around.