Home walls with low ceilings: how steep is too steep to be usable?

I have a little bit of cash set aside that I was thinking of using to build a home wall. The problem is: our basement has *really* low ceilings, like sub 7 feet. Given that, I feel like I have two options: building a really really steep board (60+ degrees) or building a shed and putting a board in there. Obviously the latter is more flexible but a lot more money.

So I'm curious: has anyone built a super steep home wall? Are you happy with it and able to use it regularly? I've trained on a kilter board up to 70 degrees so I know what I'm getting in to with the angle. Curious if the downsides of having something that steep (larger holds, not the same angle as I'm typically climbing) would cancel out the upside of having a home board.

I know that this doesn't answer your question, but a Mini Moonboard only requires 79.5" clearance at 40 degrees. Apparently people are finding them useful. 

Josh S wrote:

I have a little bit of cash set aside that I was thinking of using to build a home wall. The problem is: our basement has *really* low ceilings, like sub 7 feet. Given that, I feel like I have two options: building a really really steep board (60+ degrees) or building a shed and putting a board in there. Obviously the latter is more flexible but a lot more money.

So I'm curious: has anyone built a super steep home wall? Are you happy with it and able to use it regularly? I've trained on a kilter board up to 70 degrees so I know what I'm getting in to with the angle. Curious if the downsides of having something that steep (larger holds, not the same angle as I'm typically climbing) would cancel out the upside of having a home board.

Josh, I just built a home wall that is 47 degrees 10x12 with 8.5 foot ceilings. So far with the limited time spent on the wall I’ve found it pretty nice for limit bouldering, not sure about power endurance yet. I will add that initially I was reluctant with the steep angle, thinking that I’d have to have mostly “jugs” on the wall but am happily pulling on 10-15mm edges for limit boulders. For context I regurlary climb v7/v8 and project v9/v10. That being said I do think there an inherent gain and loss with steep walls. It all comes down to personal  goals, strength and weaknesses. 

I think the most important thing with home wall is intention, ie what do I want to get out of the training. For me power and strength in steeper terrain is a weakness and want to improve in that area. Not sure if this is just reiterating what you’ve said above but hopefully it gives context.

Looks like you are primarily a route climber. If I had your space, I’d throw a mini moonboard in there, but make offshoots for 20° traversing/endurance work. Power and endurance. I have the luxury of having room for adjustable angle, but I’m starting to find myself on 20/40 most often.

The steeps will make you silly strong, but you won’t be able to work endurance on it very well and your training specificity will be totally out the window (is that an option? To go out a window? Jk).

Do not build a Mini Moonboard without adding 3-6" of extra (blank is fine) kicker under it. That size wall has been totally adequate though. I did have room for a 10" vertical panel above the Mini Moonboard that I added. 

Bryan wrote:

Do not build a Mini Moonboard without adding 3-6" of extra (blank is fine) kicker under it. That size wall has been totally adequate though. I did have room for a 10" vertical panel above the Mini Moonboard that I added. 

Do you mean 3-6" total, or 3-6" higher than the 14.5" the mini Moonboard already has?

Victor Creazzi wrote:

Do you mean 3-6" total, or 3-6" higher than the 14.5" the mini Moonboard already has?

The Moonboard Mini has about a 6” kicker. It’s borderline unusable for a lot of the problems because there is not enough room under the footholds to position your foot. The footholds are 3” off the ground which means starting in super weird and suboptimal positions for most problems, in order to not dab on the ground or have your feet resting on the ground while starting. I have the Mini Moonboard with the kicker that it comes with. I would not build it again unless I added another 6” board under the kicker (making the whole wall 6” taller). Honestly even 3” of blank board underneath would be a significant improvement. Moon needs to redesign the Mini in my opinion. It’s almost incredible but because of the kicker it is incredibly disappointing, and it is such an easy fix. I sprayed a bunch of holds on mine and added footholds to the kicker that are actually useable and I climb mine as a spray wall now. 

Bryan wrote:

The Moonboard Mini has about a 6” kicker. It’s borderline unusable for a lot of the problems because there is not enough room under the footholds to position your foot. I have the Mini Moonboard with the kicker that it comes with. I would not build it again unless I added another 6” board under the kicker (making the whole wall 6” taller). I sprayed a bunch of holds on mine and added footholds to the kicker that are actually useable and I climb mine as a spray wall now. 

Thank you

I'll second Bryan's comments.  I lifted my mini moon 3.5 in, and it's much better now.  In addition to the lack of space for foot placements/movement, there also wasn't room for me to pad the first couple moves.  

I have a few other minor complaints about the mini moon, but anything in a climate controlled environment is dramatically better than any outdoor board where I live.  And having thousands of problems and the community aspect of a standardized board makes things much more fun if you're primarily climbing on it alone.

You don't need much space to create a wall usable for training. Also, if you can build it wider, you'll have plenty of space for traversing to get a few more moves in. Those in the UK are famous for their tiny cellar boards, don't need much space to get strong!

Build the 60..  Buy/build volumes, lots of jugs and lots of big feet.   Escape sells all of this at a pretty good price.  Many say a 60 is too steep for endurance.  Not true. Just keep your feet on the ground and arc around.  Or do boulder problem repeats.   Or simply use a hang board and take weight off/use bigger holds (Ondra does this to train endurance; he's a pretty decent climber).  One does not need a Moonboard to get strong.  For evidence, just see all the climbers from the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc.  :)

I built my walls in my attic with almost 7ft tall ceilings so similar situation. Started with a ~60° wall and could barely pull on. As others have said, get volumes and jugs. I later built a 35° wall at 8ft x 12ft for traversing circuits to complement the steeper wall. That one is much better for endurance but less fun to climb on due to the lack of vertical travel. Now that I'm stronger, I definitely prefer my 60° and have seen huge strength gains from it.

In my experience anywhere 50-60 degrees are the best angles for a training board if your intention is to try hard and get as strong as possible. If you are less motivated and want to just piddle around the steeper angles can be rough. All of my home boards have been 60, and over the years I've had many one-time visitors. Those who've stuck around reaped the rewards of their effort and commitment to improvement.

It's my experience that the strength and skills you develop on the steeper boards transfer to lower angle climbing, but the opposite is not true. Sixty makes 30 feel easy, but training on 30 doesn't help at 60.

As for hold selection I suggest training on both small hands with big feet and big hands with small feet. That does a nice job of covering a wide range of movement types while working "big muscles" and power as well as tension and fingers.