Flexibility: Muscles vs. Tendons

I'm not flexible and never have been.  When I stretch, I cannot tell if the limiting factor is the Muscle, Tendons, or something else.  For example, the hamstring tendon burns when trying to touch my toes.

1) How can one tell if the Muscle or Tendon is stretching?  How can you tell which is the limiting factor?

2) Can you stretch tendons (Per Google, I've gotten mixed info)?  If Yes, what are some safe ways to stretch tendons?

Thanks!

Edit: Sources or leads are appreciated.

when you say your hamstring burns - is it a muscle kind of burn or a nerve kind of burn?

After a solid warm up bring your tight areas through a full active range of motion. Only do a passive deep stretch when you are done exercising, but honestly a light stretch and ice or a cold soak are more than good enough. Don’t go too far. You’re muscles aren’t too short and it’s ok not to touch your toes. If you absolutely need more flexibility work on strengthening the opposing muscle group and expect months to years of stretching and climbing harder routes to actually get any major improvements. You’re more likely to strain a muscles from slow movement or force and tendons from rapid via their viscoelastic properties.

Crack climbing can put too much tension on your ankle tendons and ligaments and sport on the tendons on your fingers if you get on something too hard because they aren’t surrounded by muscles. Only stretch these tendons in your hand and tendons and ligaments in your fingers though very light stretching and actives that put mild stress on them over a long period of time, like a year. You won’t be lengthening tendons and ligaments but strengthening them like exercise strengthens bone. Too much and they tear or develop scar tissue.

Your hamstrings likely feel the burn due to inflammation from over activity and weak quads or a prior injury with scar tissue or more likely your body protecting them. Inactivity following exercise makes your muscles tight via your nervous system via resetting your proprioception and inflammation. There are cells inside your joints and muscles that tell your nervous system how “tight” they should be, and activating the opposing muscle group will help deactivate them. Stretching resets the thermostat. It’s not like stretching out a piece of leather…at least without years of persistence 

Sorry if I jumped around, watching a crappy movie and bored.

Don’t let flexible folks who are good at yoga pressure you into thinking you need to be good at it too or will ever be as flexible as they are…. Or get pregnant 

Edit: Slim has a point. It could also be radiating pain from a low back issue

google, "golgi tendon organs"

In my similar experience of limited flexibility, I’ve seen a tremendous improvement by focusing on joint control and range of motion (hips, knees, ankles).
I found that in focusing on joint space (isolating the joint and going through full range of motion, holding passive stretches at end range of motion and actually putting in effort to be consistent), the muscles in between the joints are becoming stronger, more resilient/coordinated and providing more confidence with body control.
 Functional Range Systems is a great starting point for more in depth information, there’s many practitioners and online resources of videos.

slim wrote:

when you say your hamstring burns - is it a muscle kind of burn or a nerve kind of burn?

Weird, I responded but it didn't go through.

It's definitely not a nerve burn.  But it is throughout the whole hamstring area.  I suspect some of the limitations is lower back flexibility.

M L wrote:

Edit: Slim has a point. It could also be radiating pain from a low back issue

Was there a post I'm not seeing?

i don't stretch much (at least not nearly enough), but probably half the time it feels nervy in my hamstrings.  i think my nerves must be a bit tight, or hung up in their path.  i was just curious.

Gumby King wrote:

 the hamstring tendon burns when trying to touch my toes.

Have you seen a doctor?
Do you have any fusion in your lower spine by any chance?

Gumby King wrote:

I'm not flexible and never have been.  When I stretch, I cannot tell if the limiting factor is the Muscle, Tendons, or something else.  For example, the hamstring tendon burns when trying to touch my toes.

Can you clarify what you mean by “hamstring tendon”? Is the pain behind the knee? Medial or lateral? Or is it at the top? Biceps femoris is the most common muscle that gets pulled/strained (see picture). Have you had any injuries from a heelhook, etc? You could have scar adhesions from prior injuries, and that is affecting where you feel the stretch/burn. If you have had prior injuries like that, even if they were mild enough that you hadn’t bothered to do anything other than rest firvut I would look into a PT/massage, and seek a professional opinion on how you should go about stretching it, bc reunjury is common.

My hamstrings are fairly flexible, though nowhere near what they used to be. But I can change where I feel the most stretch by slight changes in how I do the stretch. For example, if the pain you feel is behind the knee try this: bend the knees slightly, so you don’t feel any pain behind the knees when you fold at the hips, keeping your back as straight as possible; after you hinged at the hips, keeping the back straight, keep that hinge angle, and straighten the knees as far as you are able, until you feel the hamstring stretch, but not the pain behind the knee.

Coming from the dance background, I have to say, the stretching you do as an adult is extremely unlikely to improve your flexibility (certainly not with haphazard 20 sec stretch you do here and there. I know people who have significantly improved flexibility as adults, but we are talking extreme dedication of hour+ yoga commitment daily). But NOT doing any stretching will 100% guarantee that 5 years from now you are less flexible than you are now, whatever your “now” range is.

Yury wrote:

Have you seen a doctor?
Do you have any fusion in your lower spine by any chance?

I've not seen a doctors or an expert on the matter.

No spine fusions or injuries in those areas.

Gumby King wrote:

No spine fusions or injuries in those areas.

How do you know if you have not discussed your flexibility with a doctor?
Talk to a doctor and you may be surprised.
It took me a while to understand the root cause of my own poor flexibility.

Thanks for the tips and inputs.  Been away from the computer more than I expected recently (and thats a good thing).

@lena, no pain behind the knee when stretching.  It runs up and down where the hamstring is.  I'm currently dealing with a meniscus tear but the flexibility has been an issue as far as I can remember (in grade school doing the state test)

I have started stretching with a slightly bent knee and I'll admit it does feel like a much more productive stretch.

Until Covid, I was not at all consistent with stretching.  During the quarantine period, I would stretch about an hour a day most days a week.  I did produce significant gains but they subsided which is why I'm wondering if the limitation is in the tendons.

Fwiw, I purchased a book called "The Anatomy of Stretching" which changed a number of misconceptions.  When stretching I do avoid triggering the stretch reflex.

I suppose I should see a PT (I prefer sports medicine of traditional doctors for there things).

Short legs make touching the toes easy

Gumby King wrote:

Until Covid, I was not at all consistent with stretching.  During the quarantine period, I would stretch about an hour a day most days a week.  I did produce significant gains but they subsided which is why I'm wondering if the limitation is in the tendons.

I don’t think it follows that tendons are the limitation from the fact that you lose any gains you make when you stop consistent stretching. It SHOULD be muscle, as the ligaments don’t stretch much, and tendons shouldn’t. But when I’m saying “muscle” that means muscle fascia,and not just the muscle fibers themselves.

I admit it is also strange for me to think about hamstring in isolation, because I always thought of flexibility as the range of motion in a specific joint, rather than the length of the muscles. So now you are taking into account the joint structure (some hips just aren’t built for pancake splits, some spines don’t do well with a wheel, some knees simply don’t straighten past 90 degrees.), the tightness of the joint capsule, the ligaments/tendons, heck, even the size of the muscles surrounding the joint (“muscle-bound” is a thing) and the amount of subcutaneous fat, bc it’s all “tissue” that is in the way of moving the joint, and the muscle is lengthening/shortening under that layer or fascia, fat, skin, etc, so things have to interact between layers.  

As a dance kid, and from my daughter’s gymnastics experience I know that a break of even a few weeks is enough to see some loss of flexibility in the end range. It comes back quickly when you resume regular stretching, but the couple weeks after summer break were always the ouch weeks. 

I don’t know how much of the “muscle tightening” is really neurological, rather than physiological in the initial stages of losing flexibility. Unless you are literally lying there like a rag doll, and someone else is moving your legs, lengthening one muscle means allowing it to relax while the opposite muscles are tightening, and that coordinated process gets less coordinated without practice.  

Fwiw, I purchased a book called "The Anatomy of Stretching" which changed a number of misconceptions.  When stretching I do avoid triggering the stretch reflex.

I should look if it’s available from the library. Would be curious to read.

I suppose I should see a PT (I prefer sports medicine of traditional doctors for there things).

Yes, sports medicine is a good idea. I have a very good PT, so that is my default. 

Gumby King wrote:

I'm not flexible and never have been.  When I stretch, I cannot tell if the limiting factor is the Muscle, Tendons, or something else.  For example, the hamstring tendon burns when trying to touch my toes.

1) How can one tell if the Muscle or Tendon is stretching?  How can you tell which is the limiting factor?

2) Can you stretch tendons (Per Google, I've gotten mixed info)?  If Yes, what are some safe ways to stretch tendons?

Thanks!

Edit: Sources or leads are appreciated.

If you really want to improve flexibility do yoga and stick with it, it will take a long time to see gains. There are no short cuts.

But, does your lack of flexibility matter? Probably not. The body tends to balance itself out so if you don’t have any injuries just keep doing what you’re doing and stop fretting about your flexibilty.