Required Permits?

Hi,

Heading to Red Rocks March 4-9. It's my first trip there. Just came across the permit system for timed access as well as for late exit. 

How far in advance do we really need to book? Do these sell out? I don't know yet which areas we're going to climb, nor even really what time we'll be entering. Will we be able to book same day or day before? Or do we need to do more advanced planning than that?

Also, if anyone has recommendations on rental houses around there for 2 people, please let me know!

Thanks for any info!

Greg

If it’s a weekday, you can just drive up and throw two bucks at the person working the window (or they might just let you in). Same day reservations is fine.

If it’s a weekend, you need to have a reservation before you arrive at the gate. It’s best to book weekends at least a day before. I’ve been turned away at 8am and earliest available entry was noon fffff.

The park gates open at 6am and a timed entry reservation is not required for entry between 6am and 8am.

Don't count on driving up w/ $2. It depends on who is working the booth.

Get in before 8am. Or do the reservation at recreation.gov if you are getting in after 8am. Busyiest days of the year tend to be a pain and you will need a reservation further in advance... or get in early. Or plan to climb outside the loop. Or plan to climb something where you would not use the loop for access anyways (calico basin, black velvet, first creek, etc...)

Desert Rock Sports wrote:

Don't count on driving up w/ $2. It depends on who is working the booth.

Get in before 8am. Or do the reservation at recreation.gov if you are getting in after 8am. Busyiest days of the year tend to be a pain and you will need a reservation further in advance... or get in early. Or plan to climb outside the loop. Or plan to climb something where you would not use the loop for access anyways (calico basin, black velvet, first creek, etc...)

Thanks for the beta. Is beginning of March consider a busy time? Or do you think we'll be OK making reservations the day before?

We're still trying to figure out where we'll be climbing - and if anyone has thoughts on good 10c-11d sport climbing there, let me know. I ordered the book, and am marking Todo's on MP, but always open to suggestions!

Well, if you want sport of those grades you will mostly be using the 2nd and 3rd pullouts. These are small parking areas and will fill up fast. You will probably want to get in the loop by 7am to be sure to secure a spot at either of those. You can't just wait for someone else to leave, there are parking lot attendants that will shoo you on... You can park at the 1st lot which is bigger and walk further if you want.

Different schools have different spring break schedules, but yes, March is a pretty busy time. Get reservations a bit further in advance or get into the loop earlier.

The Recreation.gov app makes it really easy to make a reservation. I have my payment info saved and it takes probably less than 1 minute to make a reservation.

Some people get hung up on the $22.00 that shows up as the cost initially. When you 'continue to booking' there is an option to deduct the $20 entrance fee if you have a pass. 

Desert Rock Sports wrote:

Well, if you want sport of those grades you will mostly be using the 2nd and 3rd pullouts. These are small parking areas and will fill up fast. You will probably want to get in the loop by 7am to be sure to secure a spot at either of those. 

This.  Which means you won't have to bother with the pass system.

If you want to sleep late some days,  limestone crags, not at Red Rock, there are the Gun Club and Suburban Crag to name just two right in town. They have a lot of things in that grade and I've never found weekday issues with parking.  At Mt Potosi, Cactus Joes has stuff in those grades.

Thanks for all the great info! Didn't realize weekdays got that busy at Red Rocks, too. Good to know!

Cheers

The parking lot at the Second Pullout is very small. I recommend an early entrance to get a spot if you want to climb at a wall there. The loop road is one way so if the second pullout parking lot is full, you can’t backtrack with your vehicle to the first pullout. You can keep driving to the next lot though, which is Sandstone Quarry.

The $2 reservation fee you pay for entrance to the Red Rock Scenic Drive is payable to recreation.gov which is operated by Booz Allen Hamilton which Bloomberg calls the "most profitable spy organization." 

John Hegyes wrote:

The $2 reservation fee you pay for entrance to the Red Rock Scenic Drive is payable to recreation.gov which is operated by Booz Allen Hamilton which Bloomberg calls the "most profitable spy organization." 

Exactly!

https://mattstoller.substack.com/p/why-is-booz-allen-renting-us-back?

If I have my timed reservation and my annual pass get there and can’t get a parking spot at my pullout and have to drive fully thru the loop and back to the original entrance, can I get back in to try again for a parking spot with the same reservation?

I think the only pullout you’ll have an issue with is the second one. I don’t know how quickly that parking lot is filling up right now at the end of September but last Thanksgiving it was full by 8am. It’s a very small parking lot. 

Corey Stegall wrote:

If I have my timed reservation and my annual pass get there and can’t get a parking spot at my pullout and have to drive fully thru the loop and back to the original entrance, can I get back in to try again for a parking spot with the same reservation?

Ask this question to the BLM. Or, ask some unknown non-official person who may or may not know what they're talking about. Your choice.

Corey Stegall wrote:

If I have my timed reservation and my annual pass get there and can’t get a parking spot at my pullout and have to drive fully thru the loop and back to the original entrance, can I get back in to try again for a parking spot with the same reservation?

I would imagine that so long as it is still within your hour to enter the park, you should be able to enter again.  That said, driving the entirety of the loop to go back and try to get a spot seems pretty absurd IMO.

To echo what others said, 2nd pullout is the only one that should be an issue with.  If you're going on a busy weekend, I wouldn't bother trying to park there since it fills up quick and stays full all day.  I would just park at the north end of the 1st pullout and walk to the 2nd pullout.  It's a short, easy walk (five minutes or so) and there is always parking at the 1st pullout.  

There are some other smaller lots that get full fairly often (Sandstone quarry, Icebox, Willow Springs) but those usually have a lot of tourists just looking around or doing short hikes at most and thus have quick turnover for spots.  For any of those, you shouldn't have to wait around a really long time before a spot opens up.

Gotcha, thank you all

Corey Stegall wrote:

If I have my timed reservation and my annual pass get there and can’t get a parking spot at my pullout and have to drive fully thru the loop and back to the original entrance, can I get back in to try again for a parking spot with the same reservation?

From what I understand, per the wording, no. The reservation gets you a single entrance. YMMV with who is at the gate.

Theoretically you could enter before the timed entry period starts, so before 8am, drive the loop, then come back and enter later with a timed entry permit (if any are actually available), drive the loop, then enter again later after the timed entry period ends at 5pm until the loop entrance closes.

• The First Pullout, while busy with tourists who hike a few hundred feet down, take some pics, and hike back up and leave... I have never seen it fill up.
• The 2nd Pullout - Very small, will fill up fast. If you are not into the loop earlier than when reservations start, 8am, expect it to be full anyways.
• The 3rd Pullout - A bit bigger, can still fill up completely.
• ( Scenic overlook )
• White Rock Hills - The small prime climber spots at the end of the dirt road can fill up, rarely, but theres plenty of space to park along the dirt road or at the lot right off the scenic loop and just walk further. You shouldn't ever fail to get a spot somewhere at this pullout.
• Willow Springs - large, have not seen it ever fully full. Lots of single pitch trad.
• Icebox Canyon - Small, does fill up, typically a bit later and with tourists who want to hike a little bit further than those who stop at the 1st pullout. You could always park at Willow Springs and hike to it if you were dead set on this canyon, but you are getting a terribly late start and its a busy day.
• ( other, not great scenic overlook )
• Pine Creek Canyon -  Fairly large, but not as large as the 1st Pullout. It has probably filled up occasionally. Being where so many of the classic multipitch are accessed from as well as a pretty good overlook spot for the tourists. Its unlikely to be completely full unless its like a really popular holiday or free admission day or something and you are not good about getting into the loop in a timely manner.
• Oak Creek Canyon - Small, but not likely to fully fill up, unless people park like jerks. You could always park here for stuff in Pine Creek Canyon.
• Exit lot (Lower Red Rock Parking area) - Large dirt lot at the exit of the scenic loop. Easy hike to the Oak Creek Canyon lot. This and the other dirt lots off the highway will essentially never be full, unless its a very popular holiday or something fairly novel for Vegas, like snow all over the ground.
• Middle Oak Creek - Dirt lot off the highway.
• South Oak Creek - Dirt lot off the highway.
• First Creek - Dirt lot off the highway.
• ( Spring Mountain Ranch SP, etc...) - Don't try to access the climbing near here, from here. Its prohibited.
• Late Night Trailhead Lot - Large concrete lot is unlikely to fill up, but it is used by many. Climbers to park before carpooling in, hikers, Mtn bikers...
• Black Velvet Canyon dirt - Small, very rough near the end. Please carpool in. Probably does fill up sometimes if you are late.

Overall:

• If its a holiday or other very popular weekend for people to be outside: Get an earlier start than you think you will need.
• The line at the gate can take a while during peak season, if you are trying to get in right before 8am, get to the entrance closer to 7:40a just to be on the safe side. If its some holiday or free entrance time (timed entry fee still applies), get there even earlier.
• Carpool when you can. The closest Albertsons is a very popular spot to park, meetup, and carpool in from. You have a Dunkin**, grocery store, and several good food options for after climbing.
• If you do sport:
  • You want the 1st pullout - You will be fine accessing whenever
  • You want the 2nd pullout - You MUST access before 7am... have a backup plan for areas / routes at the 3rd pullout
  • You want the 3rd pullout - You MUST access before 8am, maybe 7:30am... have a backup plan for outside of the scenic loop like in Calico Basin
• If you do trad:
  • If you are getting a late start and trying to do a popular route, be prepared to have issues. Mostly needing to bail early... but its possible to have issues getting a parking spot if its a smaller lot. Have a backup plan for a larger lot further along the scenic drive. Get as early a start as is reasonable for the popularity of your route, the daylight available, and the size of the parking area. Being at the gate at 6am is the standard beta for any popular classic multipitch route in peak season, when daylight hours are reduced.
  • You want White Rock, Willow Springs, Oak Creek, Exit Lot, Middle Oak, South Oak, or First Creek - You should not have any issues with parking, like ever.
  • You want Icebox - You MUST access before 8am, if you are going for popular multipitch, you want to be starting earlier than that anyways.
  • You want Pine Creek Canyon - While fairly large, its the most popular lot for MP trad, Just plan to get there before like 9 or 10am and you will probably be fine on parking. You may be occasionally hosed on finishing a popular route if you are starting so late though. Around Thanksgiving, if you are going for Birdland, for example, expect like 4+ parties of 2-3 people to arrive at the gate at 6am, and another 2-4 parties to get into the loop between 6am and 8am. Then 2+ clueless parties to getting in after 8am, just to hike in and make the decision to not even start the route, but instead to climb something else nearby that is less popular.
  • You want Black Velvet Canyon:
    • Whatever you are doing, park either at Albertsons or Late Night Trailhead and carpool in.
    • If you are going for Epinephrine - Meetup at the Late Night trailhead no later than like 4am, carpool in... Have wag bags.
    • If you are going for any other classic MP around like 7-9 pitches, you probably want to start around 6-7am unless you want to risk needing to bail early. Later than that, YMMV on prime parking.

** Especially if you caffeinate, take a wag bag.

That post from Desert Rock Sports should be added to the main Red Rocks page.