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Bare minimum/starter rack for a new climber?
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I’m slowly getting into ice and have all the equipment that I need to top rope with an easy (super easy) lead climb or somewhere with a walk off, I want to start building an ice rack so I can start doing some easy lead climbs and start to progress. My questions are what is the minimum rack of screws to own? Is it best to have a base rack of steel screws with supplemental aluminum screws? Appreciate it guys, trying to figure out exactly what I need so I’m not over spending and buying unnecessary equipment. |
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Alex Lowe always said you should be able to climb any pitch of ice with 6 screws…. But for the rest of us mortals I think 8-10 screws is on the lower end for most climbers with 10-14 being more common including a v-thread screw and maybe a stubby or two etc etc. Anyways, if you have access to climbs where you can descend without v-threads I’d recommend getting an even split of 13cm (yellow) and 16cm (blue) screws of whatever your budget will allow. Once you fill in your rack over time then get a 22cm for v threading and maybe a stubby. Don’t bother with aluminum screws at all for your first rack. Go with entirely steel. They are cheaper, more versatile, and if you’re new you’ll inevitably bottom some screws out while learning and steel screws can be sharpened many times. In the end aim for something along the lines of:
4-6x 16cm 5-7x 13cm 1-2x 10cm
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Agree with Zach on all points. Note that there is a very big difference between factory sharp, or resharpened back to factory sharp, and well used screws. It's totally fine to buy used screws and save a lot of money, but make sure they are actually sharp. A 10 year old beat up screw for $25 is about $25 too much if you don't have the skills to sharpen it. |
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One 22cm two or possibly 3 16cm. The rest 13 cm and a few 10cm. 13cm is the new standard size screw. |
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I keep 19's around just because I already have them, and tend to place them early. If I was buying a new rack I'd just go with 16's, probably. |
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Its nice to have longer screws in late season when the ice is fat and baked out but regular season the bulk of your screws should be 13cm. 13cm in good ice is fine for anchors and you can even make threads with them if you really, really have to. on big 4+ to 5 climbs with back to back screw belays I carry two 16,two 22 , six or more 13cm and four to six 10cm.. (global warming) the ballance between 13 and 10cm changes depending on conditions. I also have two 7cm screws on deck for specific climbs or really early season. late season I break out a few more 16cm screws when the ice starts to get baked. that being said for a starter rack of 12 screws for cragging up to grade 5 and multi pitch grade 2+ 3+ I would buy two 16cm , one 22cm, seven 13cm and two 10cm. I know the OP is looking for a beginner rack but I wanted to show that the 12 screw rack that I listed will serve you well on any multi pitch 2 to 3+ and when/ if you progress to 4s and 5s that same rack will be plenty to get up long single pitch hard climbs. I also err on the side of shorter screws because a 13 in good ice is completely bomber. A 16 or 22 in good ice that is bottomed out and sticking half way out of the ice is useless and probably trashed. One of the big mistakes beginners make is buying too many long screws. the last time I did Shoestring which is a really long grade 2 with an optional grade 3 finish it was early season and mobbed with soloists. there were six of us winter hiking in the one group that I ended up stuck in. the ice was thin and cold. at the chockstone pitch we all passed a party that was pitching it out. Typical beginner rack of 16s and 22cm screws that some kid at REI probobly recommended them to buy. They looked totally sketched . their belay was tied off screws sticking at least 10cm out of the ice. whatever protection screws they would have been able to place were in the same boat. I bet 10cm screws would not have sunk all the way on most of the first 700ft of the climb that day. If they had my recommended rack they would have still been worked that day but they would have been a heck of a lot safer. 22cm screws are really nice for threads. I carry two on big fat climbs in case I drop one. 16 cm screws are also fine for threads its just a bit trickier. I would add that second 22cm at a later date and buy more 13cm to start with. |
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Absolutely. Global warming is real. that being said in most applications the strength difference between the 13s and 16s is a non factor yet when the ice is not fat enough for a 16 the 13 is completely truck. another factor is that often in airated ice a shorter screw works better. the longer screw often ends up in an air bubble. typically i like to put one 16 or 22 in the anchor and one 13. then use my other 16 or 22 as the 1st screw of the next pitch but Have belayed off of 10s when i had to and feel comfortable belaying with 13s. If the ice is fat and its warm and sunny 16s are very nice thing to have. you cant cover all the bases with your first rack. it will get bigger. |
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Sorry I deleted that second follow up it just showed that I quoted on my end and didn’t ask my question, and yes as a starter rack I think as you’re saying just buying a proper rack that will also allow me to climb higher grades when I do get to that point is perfect, I appreciate all of the advice |
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I have 12 screws and think that is fine. You can still have two anchors and 8 screws for the pitch. Just climb shorter pitches if you want well protected. I would get one long screw for abalakovs and the rest as a mix of 17/16 cm and 13 cm. I would get at least 3 17/16 cm in that mix. |
Zach Eiten wrote: I recommend one exception, which is the long screw or two that you will use for drilling v-threads. Most of the time you'll just be carrying these until you need to get down. Since the difference in weight between steel and aluminum becomes more substantial as the screw lengthens, I can't see any reason why something that's the longest size and mostly lives on your harness all day shouldn't be as light as possible. |
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I have been recommended and have just observed in general that your long or longer screws be aluminum 1 due to weight reduction and 2 due to a larger diameter screw making the v thread holes larger and easier to thread |
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I’m in my sixth winter of ice climbing, and I started leading my second winter. I bought some used screws that looked sharp to me, but I didn’t know what sharp really was. I had a few really un-fun and scary moments the first couple years of leading. Since then, I’ve bought four 13cm Petzl steels, eight 17cm Petzl aluminums, and a 22 cm Petzl steels, all nearly-new. It’s probably not the perfect arsenal (e.g., missing 10cm), but they have served me well for my goals and purposes, which are mostly to:
Like a lot of questions about racks, the answer includes a healthy dose of “depends,” particularly on region, conditions, pitches, difficulty, etc. The furthest I’ve pushed my ice climbing (and furthest it will probably go for a while) is to an 80’ pillar of soft WI3, and I had a blast knowing I had enough screws that were suited for the job. I think I used eight or nine screws, including the anchors. The only advice I wouldn’t waiver on is to buy sharp screws. |
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Pretty good advice above. I’ll only add…(strictly my opinion) 1. Anyone carrying 22’s on a long lead is likely newish. Anyone carrying steel 22’s is either old, cheap, noob, or any combo. Can see the second having a 22 or 19 for threads (one per team) if you’re worried about thread strength (likely less experienced) or ice is a bit sketch. 2. Sharpness is key. Only problem with buying used screws is there’s mostly a reason they are being sold. — outdated, dull, too long. Choose wisely 3. The best friend of a new ice leader 10 feet or more above his last screw is a nice and sharp 13 cm Blue Ice steel aero. It’s going in, and fast. |
Mark Pilate wrote: I say, I resemble that remark! |
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I have a long steel screw and I will carry that fucker on lead. Despite that I buy ridiculous amounts of gear, I dont feel an urgent need to replace it. I have however bought another Blue Ice Choucas Pro harness in one size bigger to get better gear loop placement with winter layers and I own four pairs of crampons... |
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The Blue Ice screws are so good. |
Bryan wrote: I would buy Petzl over them since the knob tends to break on the Blue Ice. I dont know if that has been fixed, but it would still be difficult to know when the screw was made while ordering online, |
Wictor Dahlström wrote: Should be covered under warranty and was fixed on first season. Regarding used / beat up screws, we have a guy in Quebec that runs (once a year) a production of resharpening ice screws on a CNC, he charges 8-10$ (cad) per screws and they comes back better than the factory shape. (My re -sharpened Petzl bite better than the new ones I bought this year) So buying any used screws as long as they have a crank handle and a decent price (don't even bother buying anything without a handle) can be cut to proper shape ✌️ |
Paul Morrison wrote: The reason I said to go with all steel screws was almost more aimed at the longest and shortest screws. These are the ones you are most likely to bottom out. I’d rather have a sharp/ repairable screw over the negligible weight difference of one or two screws across an entire rack. Obviously this opinion changes dramatically on where you climb. I climb mostly in Colorado and Montana where the ice can be thin for a substantial part of the season so bottoming out screws is not uncommon until you are deep into the ice season. |
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FYI you all. I have some brand new (read sharp) screws for sale here: https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/123698325/fs-brand-new-ice-screws#ForumMessage-123712373 |
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I'm a new ice leader, and I don't want to start a pitch with less than a dozen screws. |
