Best midlayer for legs?

I'm looking for a leg midlayer for cold weather climbing & skiing... I think.

I tried skiing this past weekend (~20F) in some lightweight merino baselayer long johns, and OR Cirque 2's. They definitely were not warm enough, and I felt much better after switching to some insulated snow pants.

For skiing, I suppose those insulated pants are good enough. But they would be way too baggy for ice climbing, and I really do want to like the Cirques. I'm considering getting a much heavier base layer, like Smartwool Merino 250, or even the new SmarWool Intraknit base layers, but I doubt even that will be enough for temps <20F. Alternatively, I could keep the thin base layer, and add a mid layer under the cirques... Smartwool makes a tight fleece layer, and Patagonia makes R1 bottoms as well as R1 fleece pants. These are enticing (I love my R1 hoodie), but don't look like they'd fit under my Cirques. In the same vein are Patagonia's Nano Air pants, which look dreamy, but again maybe a bit much under the cirques. I've also read decent reviews of chearp military surplus grid fleece leggings that are very similar to R1 materials.

Do people do some kind of layering like this for ice climbing? Or is an insulated pant common? I'd like to hear from Cirque owners, or someone using a similar softshell.

Arcteryx do some power stretch baselayers, you can also look at the mountain equipment eclipse pants.

Icebreaker 260 Tech Base Layer Leggings with Fly - Men's

I can't fit anything besides one tight base layer under my cirques. So another layer isn't an option for cirques. However I'm probably not gonna go ice climbing in much below 10F.i could do single digits on the approach. I don't own any midlayer, though I think nano air pants or similar would be nice on occasion. In reality I never need another layer (climbing above 10f).I have a puffy skirt I can add for the belay if doing multi pitch and puffy pants for extended belay cragging. You can find some looser style pants that allow a midlayer if you wanted one. And then if theyre too loose at the bottom then wear some gaiters to tuck it all in. 

Honestly if you are looking at no colder the 10f a light weight baselayer will be fine, you would overheat in nano air pants or any substatial grid fleece. 

that guy named seb wrote:

Honestly if you are looking at no colder the 10f a light weight baselayer will be fine, you would overheat in nano air pants or any substatial grid fleece. 

I'm not the OP so the 10F was my general climbing limit. And yeah that's why I don't own a midlayer or climb in insulated pants bc it's too hot. 

Jake woo wrote:

I'm not the OP so the 10F was my general climbing limit. And yeah that's why I don't own a midlayer or climb in insulated pants bc it's too hot. 

Ah sorry missed that, drunk posting is a hazard. 

Yes.  

I get cold legs much easier than my partners - I just dont carry fat on my legs.  Plenty elsewhere but just not there.  If its single digits or lower I use fleece tights from Black Diamond (similar to an R1) over a lightweight long john bottom.  It works great.   

Some R1 fleece leggings are nice. Nano air pants if you can find them are amazing. 

I wear Nano-Air Pants underneath my Psiphon AR softshell pants for / while on ice and don't overheat; everyone's different. They're the best leg midlayer I've ever worn. Can't recommend them enough - too bad they appear to have been axed by Patagonia. Not surprised, though.

that guy named seb wrote:

Honestly if you are looking at no colder the 10f a light weight baselayer will be fine, you would overheat in nano air pants or any substatial grid fleece. 

Like I said, I was cold enough in Cirques + a light baselayer that I had to add some insulation. Maybe that's not true for you.

On another note, it seems like so many of these are discontinued and hard to find. Patagonia Nano Air is gone, Arcteryx Axio Knickers are gone, the Backcountry Wolverine Cirque pant is sold out... 

Arc'teryx proton pant is nice. Or try the Ragged Mountain Powerstretch leggings out of Intervale NH 

Woolpower 400 weight longjohns are some of the warmest I've used.

I get these out when it's going to be really cold.

https://woolpowerus.com/product/long-johns-400-no-fly/

I tend to run cold. If it's relatively warm I use a single 260 Merino LG, cooler 2*260 MLG and if it's cold out, a 260 MLG and light weight fleece under my softshell pants.

We use multiple layers under our jackets, why not of pants?

that guy named seb wrote:

Arcteryx do some power stretch baselayers, you can also look at the mountain equipment eclipse pants.

The Eclipse pants look like a nice solution; adds warmth without extra bulk in the form of pockets, waistband cord, etc... seems they are gone everywhere though. Do you know where to get them?

Joe Hollowed wrote:

Like I said, I was cold enough in Cirques + a light baselayer that I had to add some insulation. Maybe that's not true for you.

Were you skiing at a lift-serviced resort, or backcountry touring?

Insulation needs for lift skiing are vastly different than most other active backcountry pursuits, so don't get too hung up trying to predict ice climbing layers based on an experience at the ski resort.  I regularly climb in temps around 10-20 F in a soft shell plus a single midweight baselayer pant, but I would freeze on the lift in the same gear.

If you need more insulation, just double up on thinner bottom base layers, or get a thicker layer.  Fleece bottoms aren't rocket science, and you don't necessarily need something fancy/expensive.  Just buy something of a heavier weight (higher gsm) or double up.  Most companies make some form of stretch/grid fleece bottoms and the function is quite similar.  Patagonia Capilene, Rab Power Stretch or Flux, ME Eclipse, Arcteryx Rho, Marmot Stretch Fleece, Mammut Aconcagua ML, OR Vigor, or your local outdoor store's generic product (REI, MEC, Backcountry, etc.).

Joe Hollowed wrote:

The Eclipse pants look like a nice solution; adds warmth without extra bulk in the form of pockets, waistband cord, etc... seems they are gone everywhere though. Do you know where to get them?

Can't help you I'm afraid based in the uk, it you are willing to ship from Europe I'm sure you will find people. 

Joe Hollowed wrote:

Do people do some kind of layering like this for ice climbing? 

Yes. I wear high loft fleece pants for ice climbing in cold places. I wear 60g synthetic knickers for lift skiing. And heated socks, but that's another thread. Do what feels right, don't worry too much about what others are wearing and their own internal thermostats. 

It seems like your pants are going to be the bottleneck. If you get cold climbing, get some looser shell pants so you can fit a nice midlayer.

I just got some Patagonia Thermal Weight Capilene. I think it used to be called R0.5. Seems kind of nice if you dont need puffy pants.

jdejace wrote:

Yes. I wear high loft fleece pants for ice climbing in cold places. I wear 60g synthetic knickers for lift skiing. And heated socks, but that's another thread. Do what feels right, don't worry too much about what others are wearing and their own internal thermostats. 

It seems like your pants are going to be the bottleneck. If you get cold climbing, get some looser shell pants so you can fit a nice midlayer.

Thanks for the advice. Which knickers do you use?

that guy named seb wrote:

Can't help you I'm afraid based in the uk, it you are willing to ship from Europe I'm sure you will find people. 

I'm going for some OR Vigor Bottoms which look similar to the Eclipse; fleece gridded pants with a slim fit made to go over long johns and/or under a shell