Changes to YDS ?

The Yosemite Decimal System (YDS) rating of climbing difficulty has seen some changes over the years from when it was introduced in the 1950's. Originally, the YDS scale started at 5.0 and topped out at 5.9. In the 1970's as shoe design and rubber improved and technique changed, climbers were able to send above 5.9 and the YDS scale introduced 5.10 and a sub scale of A-D. As of recent I have noticed writers including +s and -s when describing route difficulty. I first noticed this in an episode of the Sharp End where a route was rated as a 5.11-. Since then I have noticed it in Climbing magazine articles, blogs and even here on Mountain Project. As I sit here writing dazed and confused trying to figure out whether I just climb out from under a rock, woke up from a coma, or warped into a different existence in the multiverse where the +/- system were added to the YDS. Can someone let me know when the +/- was added to the YDS and if it has, what's the point; isn't that what the a-d subscale are for?

I don’t know what to tell you. You may have been in a coma. 

Mar-siu Siuta wrote:

 In the 1970's as shoe design and rubber improved and technique changed, climbers were able to send above 5.9 and the YDS scale introduced 5.10 and a sub scale of A-D. 

Climbers were climbing above 5.9 long before the 70's. 

I've also seen climbs on Mountain Project with sections described as "5.11ish", totes wacky but somehow I knew what they meant.

Wait till you hear about a b c and d

Coma 5.11+

+/- came about before a, b, c, d.

Occasionally there is a push to use +/- for trad and a, b, c, d for sport.

I know of a route graded at 5.11d+.  When I asked about it the 1st accent party said they did not believe they were able to climb 5.12 but now the they think the route is really 5.12.

The only grading system which can be defended based on logic alone is Australian. I find this comforting. 

Mother fing inflation am I right? Eggs got upgraded from 3 rd class to 5.9. I bet exum is gonna be 6.1 by years end!

j mo wrote:

The only grading system which can be defended based on logic alone is Australian. I find this comforting. 

The idea that anything having to do with climbing is based on logic makes me uncomfortable.

Logically processing this, the +/- grading originated prior to the a/b/c/d and is now used sometimes to represent routes that people feel fall in in between a/b or c/d

I think YDS needs a modern day upgrade.
If we look at the logic of a/b/c/d, it appears that the decimal step is 0.25
Then we could have - 

5.10a is 5.10.00
5.10b is 5.10.25
5.10c is 5.10.50
5.10d is 5.10.75
5.11a is 5.11.00

Think about it - possibilities are endless!  If it is harder than old school 5.10a,but easier that 5.10b we could rate is 5.10.07, etc....

/SARCASM

Wait until you find out that in some areas what you know as 5.8 is actually 5.6 and at other areas it's 5.10a.  Then factor in the styles of climbing that you're good at and typically do well in, vs. the styles you don't and how different grades feel when they're exactly the same but on different terrain.  I suck at technical slab mainly because of hip flexibility and overall static mobility, but if you throw me on an overhang I'm completely at home and can climb harder grades.  

TLDR:  it's all subjective anyway- use grades as a general guide and don't put too much emphasis on them.  Climb what excites you, not what will feed your ego with a number.

I think it was Siegrist who said on a podcast in recent years that YDS should be used for trad climbing, French system for sport climbing, and v scale for bouldering. And I can’t think of a better solution to the grading confusion. 

Scott Sinner wrote:

I think it was Siegrist who said on a podcast in recent years that YDS should be used for trad climbing, French system for sport climbing, and v scale for bouldering. And I can’t think of a better solution to the grading confusion. 

Replace the idiotic French system with Australian and I agree. 

It's not broken and doesn't need fixing. Your confusion is unimportant. 

Scott Sinner wrote:

I think it was Siegrist who said on a podcast in recent years that YDS should be used for trad climbing, French system for sport climbing, and v scale for bouldering. And I can’t think of a better solution to the grading confusion. 

What if someone told you they climbed a 10a mixed route. Do you assume they are a moderate trad climber or a cutting edge sport climber?

Camdon Kay wrote:

What if someone told you they climbed a 10a mixed route. Do you assume they are a moderate trad climber or a cutting edge sport climber?

Mixed means rock and ice.  Just because a rock route has some bolts doesn’t make it a sport route. 

Marc801 C wrote:

Mixed means rock and ice.  Just because a rock route has some bolts doesn’t make it a sport route. 

Well then there are a lot of trad climbs here in Idaho that are referred to as mixed routes

I've seen 5.11 divided into 11 different grades of increasing difficulty, as follows:

5.11a, 5.10d, 5.11-, 5.11b, 5.11, 5.11c, 5.9 squeeze, 5.11+, 5.10 OW, 5.12a, 5.11d.

          -Brutus of Wyde

Camdon Kay wrote:

Well then there are a lot of trad climbs here in Idaho that are referred to as mixed routes

Guide books in WA/OR also often refer to routes that use trad and bolt protection as "mixed".  Confusing terminology, but it is what it is.