Existential threat to all of my layering knowledge: the ski jacket

I used to never look at any clothing on the buy/sell forums, because climbing clothing just intimidated me too much. What are all these layers, and what are they for? When do I want a shell, when do I want active insulation, when do I want down? I've spent the last several months learning all that I can about layering systems, and have been slowly making purchases to dial in a truly reliable and versatile closet. It's super satisfying to learn and to optimize what I own, and even more so to take pieces outside and really reap the benefits.

However, I've recently been getting into skiing for the first time in my life, and was pretty surprised and frustrated to find out that much of this goes out the window. I'd even venture to say that some people on resort slopes do not know what I'm talking about. But why? Because of this one mysterious item, that I don't understand: the "ski jacket". Honestly, what even is a ski jacket? It seems not to fit in a typical laying hierarchy as I understand it. Why are they sold with such a specific application/why do they need to exist? Why doesn't it seem as common to apply the layering philosophy of e.g. climbing, to skiing? I was excited that the gear I've been optimizing for ice climbing would also cover my bases for skiing, but maybe not...

When browsing some Goretex hard shells at REI, and an employee proudly announced to me, "no, those aren't for skiing", and proceeded to point me to the "skiing section". There, I found a bunch of jackets that I probably never would have considered buying (since I would prefer to choose separately my insulation and shell). Is there any reason that I shouldn't hit the slopes with e.g. an R1, a insulated mid layer, and a goretex shell? Do I really need this powder skirt? Do people really have different closets for skiiing and e.g. ice climbing? 

Maybe it's just a cultural difference. Maybe you don't need to think about layering so much if you just ski at the resort, and can use the lodge itself as a way to regulate body temperature. Maybe the gear does become more similar to more general climbing and alpinism in backcountry skiing and touring. Someone please lift the fog for me...

Edit: This article was enlightening, and did sort of confirm what I suggested above; a dedicated and insulated ski jacket makes sense at the resort, while for the backcountry a more typical laying system including a hardshell is more common

Only “ski-specific” piece of clothing I have are some bibs.

Worth their weight in gold imo and no “powder skirt” needed! 

Nathan P wrote:

Only “ski-specific” piece of clothing I have are some bibs.

Worth their weight in gold imo and no “powder skirt” needed! 

Counterpoint: all my mountaineering shells are cut too short, so if I fall, I can expect snow driven up under the hem. Even with the hem drawcord tightened down to prevent that.

Also, ski jackets are rarely built to cut weight. If you're riding the lift, who cares about 4 extra ounces?

Nathan P wrote:

Only “ski-specific” piece of clothing I have are some bibs.

Worth their weight in gold imo and no “powder skirt” needed! 

Yea, so snow pants are a similar piece of kit that is rather specific to skiing that wouldn't be generally applicable to other forms of winter recreation. For whatever reason, this one irks me less. I guess because we would normally not wear waterproof layers on the legs otherwise. Like, a pair of bibs and a pair of Cirques are less redundant than a ski jacket and a Goretex shell.

I wear different clothing for winter climbing and skiing.  

For climbing, I wear very light weight clothing while moving, and put on a big puffy belay jacket when I'm stationary.  Climbing is generally more strenuous than skiing, and when I'm actively climbing, I put out so much heat that I don't need much insulation.  I would get cold if I was skiing in my active clothing, and my big belay jacket is a bit bulky for skiing.  

In contrast, lift served skiing is much less strenuous.  I generate much less heat, and spend a lot of time sitting on lifts.  

So, I find that for skiing, I prefer to wear more insulation.  I generally wear an insulated ski jacket (less bulky than my belay jackets) layered over a base layer (and possibly a mid layer if it's really cold.)    

I don't tend to add layers when switching between skiing and riding the lift. Temperature regulation is generally accomplished by opening up zippers and the vents in my ski helmet.

I could accomplish the same thing by simply changing out some of the layers for my climbing clothing system, but it's easier to just have a dedicated box of ski stuff.  

Short answer - you're right, ski jackets are for resorts. I wear all the same stuff winter climbing and bc skiing, but wish I had bibs! 

For inbounds skiing, weight is not a concern and you usually won't need to change layers more than once a day (if even). So, combining insulation and a shell into one garment makes it so you only have to buy one jacket to get into skiing. Feel free to use your existing layering setup, although having a shell that is longer and/or has a powder skirt is extremely useful on powder days. IMO that's the only necessary feature of a ski-specific jacket, but there are some others that are nice:

Removeable or helmet compatible hood, since most people wear helmets 100% of the time inbounds.

Tons of pockets. My 686 jacket can easily hold 2 burritos, snacks, an extra fleece, my phone/other personal kit, and has a water bladder. No reason to wear a backpack inbounds. A wrist pocket if you have an RFID ski pass is nice.

Better glove gaiters/interfaces (IDK the proper term). Helps with not getting snow in your sleeves.

Plus, if a climber is going 70mph, something's a wee bit less than optimal.

Old lady H wrote:

Plus, if a climber is going 70mph, something's a wee bit less than optimal.

I'm probably more likely to hit 70mph as a climber than skier, unfortunately 

Don't put too much stock in what an REI employee tells you. In my experience they rarely know what they're talking about. For what it's worth, I don't have a dedicated 'ski jacket,' but also am in the backcountry more than on the lifts. My hardshell is an Arcteryx Alpha SV and the only way it falls short skiing is that it's a little too short. With Arcteryx at least, the difference between their mountaineering/climbing jackets and the ski jackets is mainly the length and a few extra features like powder skirts and glove pockets.