Effectiveness of taping fingers for avoiding overuse injury

Jason Kim wrote:

What a cynical view!  There are plenty of issues with any internet forum, but sites likes these are also loaded with useful, actionable information.  Real knowledge and informed opinions.

Well, I didn't think I was cynical and it wasn't my intent to be so. Cynical, I think, means distrust and/or pessimism of motives or human nature; my comments were on the quality of what people will likely post and their lack of informed knowledge. Did you mean something else other than cynical? About the second statement, ". . . loaded with useful actionable information." Yes, sometimes MP can be useful, but the thread wasn't about the site itself, and I wasn't speaking about the site itself, but about a specific issue and for that, I'll stay with I wrote. There won't be any informed posts or real knowledge. There are good sources for this but read what's been added so far: anecdotes and unsupported opinions.    

I agree with you, the benefits of taping are likely a placebo effect. But that is my uninformed opinion, that's it, I don't know.  

There are, as far as I know, no randomised controlled trials into the effectiveness of finger taping as injury prevention in climbing so any evidence about taping will be a mixture of extrapolating from other sports and theorising from biomechancial studies.

In other sports, specific strengthening exercise is the single most effective injury prevention strategy. External joint supports (ie braces) can also be effective, strapping is not effective as prevention but can be helpful in return to sport. 

Studies on the effects of finger taping have cautiously concluded that H-taping can reduce the bowstringing in ruptured pulleys. An old study on cadaveric hands concluded that circumferential taping in the region of the A2 pulley did not change the load at which the pulley failed in a simulated crimp. 

Applying this into the original posters question, this very limited evidence suggests strapping fingers is unlikely to help prevent injuries in healthy fingers but might help in injury rehabilitation. Fingerboarding can be used as a strength and conditioning exercise (rather than for performance benefits, though it might help in this way too) which might reduce finger injury frequency.

WF WF51 wrote:

Well, I didn't think I was cynical and it wasn't my intent to be so. Cynical, I think, means distrust and/or pessimism of motives or human nature; my comments were on the quality of what people will likely post and their lack of informed knowledge. Did you mean something else other than cynical? About the second statement, ". . . loaded with useful actionable information." Yes, sometimes MP can be useful, but the thread wasn't about the site itself, and I wasn't speaking about the site itself, but about a specific issue and for that, I'll stay with I wrote. There won't be any informed posts or real knowledge. There are good sources for this but read what's been added so far: anecdotes and unsupported opinions.    

I agree with you, the benefits of taping are likely a placebo effect. But that is my uninformed opinion, that's it, I don't know.  

Setting aside semantics, I guess the question is, do firsthand anecdotes and "unsupported" opinions have any value, in this case?  I think they do, so I would say these are informed posts that qualify as useful knowledge.  If there were published studies on the subject, I'd agree that it would be better to look to the data before soliciting opinions on a public forum, but in this case, we have to work with what we've got.     

I don't think you need a formal education in sports science or experience counseling athletes to bring some good information to the table.  Most of us who've been in the game for a while have learned (perhaps through trial and error) what seems to work and what doesn't. 

It takes years for tendon strength to meaningfully improve and only a few days in the gym to get injured. People have been taping fingers since the beginning of the sport.  

What’s truly a placebo is Bro Science.

^^truly. In this case, I would favor an aggregated opinion of MP users over an RCT with 30 participants as closer to the ground truth

(my guess is that aggregated opinion would roughly be, “probably helps a little but not a lot, so don’t count on it”)

NTH wrote:

^^truly. In this case, I would favor an aggregated opinion of MP users over an RCT with 30 participants as closer to the ground truth

(my guess is that aggregated opinion would roughly be, “probably helps a little but not a lot, so don’t count on it”)

I'd say tape helps a lot, when you need it. Considering that, I think taping fingers when you're healthy is aid, literally, and in doing so you're not going to gain strength and tendon resilience like you would naturally. Similar to wearing ankle braces all the time. It can create a weakness when it's not there, which can be trouble. 

So, out of curiosity, people who advocate preventively taping healthy, never-previously-injured fingers: WHAT tendon/pulley/ligament do you tape to protect? A2 pulley on every finger? What about collateral ligament? How do you decide which of multiple uninjured tendons and ligaments are you going to protect? Just wrap every finger, and hope it does something?

Taping after injury, or during injury rehab isn't what the OP talking about. 

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

I'd say tape helps a lot, when you need it. Considering that, I think taping fingers when you're healthy is aid, literally, and in doing so you're not going to gain strength and tendon resilience like you would naturally. Similar to wearing ankle braces all the time. It can create a weakness when it's not there, which can be trouble. 

If you look at finger anatomy and how these tissues function, it doesn’t make sense that taping provides any additional support to an uninjured finger. The tape that most climbers use is flexible and stretchy, and sits on the outside of the finger, several millimeters away from the pulleys we’re looking to protect. If you think of your finger as a fishing pole, the pulleys are the eyelets that hold the line to the pole. The fishing line, rod and eyelets are all very strong. Now wrap some cushioned foam around the pole at each eyelete, and add some climber’s tape to hold it in place moderately tight. Go hook a feisty world record marlin. Can you imagine a scenario where the force begins to break an eyelet from the rod, but the tape, which isn’t nearly as strong and sits at a distance (disadvantaged position from a mechanical perspective) makes any difference whatsoever?

Just because people have been taping for decades doesn’t mean much.

Jason Kim wrote:

Just because people have been taping for decades doesn’t mean much.

it means they've been enjoying the placebo effect for decades.

Lena chita wrote:

That’s not at all what I said!  I said that hangboard offers a way to strengthen your fingers in a controlled and gradual way.

Overuse injuries are exactly that, OVERUSE. If you are climbing 5+ Days a week, and trying hard tweaky moves every single time, you could get overuse injuries. If you go from not hangboarding ever into an advanced hangboard protocol that you decide to do more frequently than the protocol recommends, you could get an overuse injury. But your fingers are not going to explode if you start a beginner hangboard protocol.

And you SHOULD try harder routes, and Boulder some, if you want to improve. The way to minimize finger injury is NOT to avoid those things, but to be mindful of what you do. If there is a tweaky hold, and you are lunging for it, maybe don’t go it 20 times on the same day. Maybe figure out a way to do the move in a more precise way, so you are not overloading your fingers repeatedly and abruptly. Basically don’t go zero to 100. Take one small step at a time in your progression of difficulty. 

I'm a little late to this party as I was locked out yesterday and out climbing today. But thanks so much for this response, as well as all the other responses! I love the dialogue and back and forth. Lena, My apologies for putting words in your mouth. I guess I heard some people saying that tape may not be effective if no finger injuries, and then I went back to my old notions of not hangboarding or pulling hard, but I see that is now what you or others are saying. The new information is super helpful!

As far as the bouldering point, maybe this one has to go to the bouldering forum, but I looked at that forum for the last year, and didn't see any post on this topic. So I have to ask, is there a way to mitigate the seemingly (to me) inevitable risk of foot, ankle, and potentially wrist, etc injury from ground falling that comes with bouldering, even in the gym? I know so many people who have been injured bouldering in the gym, so I had pretty much sworn off anything above a V2, as that is the hardest that I can do and be sure I won't ground fall. These injuries that I have heard of don't seem like they are always related to falling wrong, falling from high, etc, it just seems to be invariably related to bouldering. Is there a way to mitigate this risk, so bouldering could actually add value over the injury risk?

Sam Lawrence wrote:

As far as the bouldering point, maybe this one has to go to the bouldering forum, but I looked at that forum for the last year, and didn't see any post on this topic. So I have to ask, is there a way to mitigate the seemingly (to me) inevitable risk of foot, ankle, and potentially wrist, etc injury from ground falling that comes with bouldering, even in the gym? I know so many people who have been injured bouldering in the gym, so I had pretty much sworn off anything above a V2, as that is the hardest that I can do and be sure I won't ground fall. These injuries that I have heard of don't seem like they are always related to falling wrong, falling from high, etc, it just seems to be invariably related to bouldering. Is there a way to mitigate this risk, so bouldering could actually add value over the injury risk?

The key word is MITIGATE. Climbing is risky. Bouldering is risky. You can’t eliminate a chance that you will get hurt climbing, ever. But you can minimize it.

Learn to fall properly, and practice it intentionally, before you commit to hard moves where you might fall. You also don’t have to finish every Boulder problem. Just because the wall goes to 15 feet, doesn’t mean you have to. There will be plenty of problems where the hard moves are 2- feet of the ground, or 5 feet off the ground, whatever you are comfortable with. And working those moves would still be beneficial. If you do it more, you would be more comfortable with falling.

Whatever it is you are scared of, take a small step. If you are worried that the move will hurt your fingers, or your shoulder, etc, tell yourself that you are going to make the move, but not latch the hold: You will just slap it this first time. Or make the move slow and controlled, and reach 5 inches below the hold that is out of reach. Then on the next try aim for 4 inches, etc. 

Jason Kim wrote:

If you look at finger anatomy and how these tissues function, it doesn’t make sense that taping provides any additional support to an uninjured finger. The tape that most climbers use is flexible and stretchy, and sits on the outside of the finger, several millimeters away from the pulleys we’re looking to protect. If you think of your finger as a fishing pole, the pulleys are the eyelets that hold the line to the pole. The fishing line, rod and eyelets are all very strong. Now wrap some cushioned foam around the pole at each eyelete, and add some climber’s tape to hold it in place moderately tight. Go hook a feisty world record marlin. Can you imagine a scenario where the force begins to break an eyelet from the rod, but the tape, which isn’t nearly as strong and sits at a distance (disadvantaged position from a mechanical perspective) makes any difference whatsoever?

Just because people have been taping for decades doesn’t mean much.

That makes zero sense. Adding support to a strong pulley is only going to help. If you always tape, then sure, I guess you'll never have trouble, but if you stop using the aid of tape, you're going to be in trouble, just like the very real phenomenon of relying on ankle braces, which weakens your tendons and ligaments, and can be trouble if you stop using the braces. If your wild assumptions were correct, what would be the point of using tape when your pulleys are damaged? Also, I don't use tape that is "stretchy". Never heard of that. Might be something you should look into. Ive always bought generic sports tape, which is white and has a touch of texture. Youre probably using the wrong stuff, based on your post. 

Your hypothesis is unfounded, and irrational. It's like saying if you add a wooden beam under a stronger wooden beam, the stronger one wouldn't be able to take more weight. Very illogical thought process you have there. 

J T wrote:

Tape is aid when you’re healthy huh? Looks like I’m going to tape up for my crimp projects now!!! Thanks for the beta!

*

This brief article/study (the same that Duncan linked above m) and few more like it (at the bottom of the page)point towards what many on here have experienced/said, which is that tape likely provides little-to-no benefit (especially in prevention). It seems for every 1 study that has some semblance of “support” taping may work during recovery there are 4 more that say it likely does not…

I do think some people on here are getting confused as to how pulley’s in the finger work compared to how tendons in the finger work though.  

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

This brief article/study and few more (at the bottom of the page) like it point towards what many on here have experienced/said, which is that tape likely provides little-to-no benefit (especially in prevention). It seems for every 1 study that has some semblance of “support” taping may work during recovery there are 4 more that say it likely does not…

I do think some people on here are getting confused as to how pulley’s in the finger work compared to how tendons in the finger work though.  

From my personal experience crimping on the tiniest crimps, tape is aid, with or without healthy fingers. It definitely, 100% makes pulling on tiny holds easier. I can't see how anyone could argue that. Go do it and report back. 

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

It definitely, 100% makes pulling on tiny holds easier. I can't see how anyone could argue that. Go do it and report back. 

IMO - most would agree.  

Meta analysis papers and bro science youtube videos cater to those too dumb and lazy to read, process and think for themselves.  

For example, the above linked paper cites numerous gems that highly contradict their summary conclusions - such as “Taping over the distal end of the proximal phalanx decreased bowstringing by 22% and absorbed 12% of the total force.”

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

From my personal experience crimping on the tiniest crimps, tape is aid, with or without healthy fingers. It definitely, 100% makes pulling on tiny holds easier. I can't see how anyone could argue that. Go do it and report back. 

So even when data actually is provided you still ignore it? Lol 

Don’t you think that if tape “definitely, 100% helps crimp on tiny easier”, as you claim, that you’d see more pros climbing it? I understand your “logic” that you think relying on tape could actually make you weaker, but why don’t we see some of them pros taping up for send goes of Burden or other other ridiculous crimp lines if it “definitely, 100% makes pulling on tiny holds easier”?

Ryan J wrote:

IMO - most would agree.  

Meta analysis papers and bro science youtube videos cater to those too dumb and lazy to read, process and think for themselves.  

“Meta analysis papers” cater to those too dumb as lazy to read? That’s a first lol 

For example, the above linked paper cites numerous gems that highly contradict their summary conclusions - such as “Taping over the distal end of the proximal phalanx decreased bowstringing by 22% and absorbed 12% of the total force.”

No, the article says that, “Evidence of low to moderate certainty suggests that taping might reduce bowstringing of the finger flexor tendons by 15-22%.”

While I agree that seems somewhat misleading you’d have to read the DOI’s (referenced and linked at the bottom) to fully understand why the evidence was of low to moderate certainty. Moral of the story is that nobody has provided anything other anecdotal evidence aside from that article. Believe me, I’d love to send my V11 crimp line project just by taping my fingers but that’s not my experience and I haven’t seen any definitive data supporting it either way. More data suggests it doesn’t do anything than saying it does. With that said, placebos have been shown to prove as beneficial, sometimes more, than the real thing (and is my guess why there is such conflicting info) by that’s an entirely different conversation. 

Jason Kim wrote:

If you look at finger anatomy and how these tissues function, it doesn’t make sense that taping provides any additional support to an uninjured finger. The tape that most climbers use is flexible and stretchy, and sits on the outside of the finger, several millimeters away from the pulleys we’re looking to protect. If you think of your finger as a fishing pole, the pulleys are the eyelets that hold the line to the pole. The fishing line, rod and eyelets are all very strong. Now wrap some cushioned foam around the pole at each eyelete, and add some climber’s tape to hold it in place moderately tight. Go hook a feisty world record marlin. Can you imagine a scenario where the force begins to break an eyelet from the rod, but the tape, which isn’t nearly as strong and sits at a distance (disadvantaged position from a mechanical perspective) makes any difference whatsoever?

Just because people have been taping for decades doesn’t mean much.

Can tape provide support? Yes, but to know if it could provide sufficient support to prevent acute and/or tendon injury would require a lot more information. People who say "It provides support so of course it prevents injury, duh" aren't thinking clearly. So, yes, I agree with you, it seems doubtful taping is useful but again, I don't know. 

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

That makes zero sense. Adding support to a strong pulley is only going to help. If you always tape, then sure, I guess you'll never have trouble, but if you stop using the aid of tape, you're going to be in trouble, just like the very real phenomenon of relying on ankle braces, which weakens your tendons and ligaments, and can be trouble if you stop using the braces. If your wild assumptions were correct, what would be the point of using tape when your pulleys are damaged? Also, I don't use tape that is "stretchy". Never heard of that. Might be something you should look into. Ive always bought generic sports tape, which is white and has a touch of texture. Youre probably using the wrong stuff, based on your post. 

Your hypothesis is unfounded, and irrational. It's like saying if you add a wooden beam under a stronger wooden beam, the stronger one wouldn't be able to take more weight. Very illogical thought process you have there. 

I'm using the same tape as you.  Various brands of tape that are marketed specifically to climbers and other generic sports tape, depending what I have lying around at the time.  Throw a couple wraps of tape around a pair of linesman pliers and then use your hands to force the pliers open.  Tape stretches, a lot.

Keeping with your analogy, you're not adding a second wooden beam underneath a stronger wooden beam.  You're adding a few layers of squishy insulation and foam underneath the strong wooden beam (that's the surrounding tissue and skin) and then adding a slightly flexible beam made out of hard plastic that isn't nearly as strong.  Whatever extra strength it adds is negligible.  If an applied force is going to break the main beam, the rinky dink support you added underneath it isn't going to make any significant difference.  

I'm not saying taping doesn't work, I provided a theory above.  If you wonder why I tape when I'm injured, re-read my posts because I explained why.