Top Choice Ice Tool
|
If you could have any set, what would you get? I have some hybrid tools for gen mountaineering, but am looking to buy some technical tools. Is there a large variance in preference amongst flagship tools? |
|
Nomics are the gold standard. |
|
Nomics for mixed climbing. gravel tech machines for dry tooling. Cassin X-dreams displace less ice and take less energy than the Nomics to get a solid stick. SO I like those for pure ice, But the pics are soft and take a beating on rock. |
|
Dave Cramer wrote: THIS |
|
Cassin X-Dream is my favorite, but I have not tried the Grivel Dark Machines. (I prefer the X-Dream to the Nomic.) |
|
Seems like the nomic has a bit more weight behind it's swing than the xdreams. I have nomics and my friend has xdreams, we recently realized we each thought the other's tools were better and weren't aware of the other's drawbacks since we didn't use them. It's personal preference, they both have pros and cons. |
|
Probably the minority but I like the BD Reactors. I plan to try the Nomics this season and I am sure I’ll like them better than the Reactors. |
|
I have Nomics and dont want anything other. The competitor would be Camp X-Dream. If you climb overhangs Petzel Ergonomicos would be a thing. |
|
Dave Cramer wrote: For pinky rests breaking and head wobble? I really don't have a dog in this fight, I think tools (not crampons) are coke vs pepsi it's mostly personal preference. As far as I can tell, all tools and crampons have breakage problems. Besides the way a tool swings, some grips fit different hands better than others. If I were a new climber, I would buy the tool (probably between Nomics and Xdreams) that fit ones hands the best. I would be high, or blindly biased, if I didn't admit that Nomics and Xdreams are both great tools. I prefer Xdreams over Nomics but I add pick weights and completely agree that Camp picks are too soft. Xdreams heads loosen too. I climb with tons of people and there is no gold standard among ice tools. I find it interesting that the people with the strongest preferences (that I know) seem to have used the least amount of competing products, and for whatever reason these people almost wanna start fights that Nomics and Darts are the best. Edit - does anyone else wonder when a new tool will be released that is the new one to beat? New tool development, or a significant upgrade, seems to be lagging. |
|
Rexford Nesakwatch wrote: Krukonogi picks on XDreams gives them more weight in the head and eliminates the softness of the stock picks. Their thin ice pick is almost like cheating. Sadly, no Kruk picks for the foreseeable future. The advances in tools seems to be focused on materials, not design. Lighter and stronger shaft construction using carbon fiber; better alloys for the picks, grippy surfaces, etc. I think that the "tool to beat" will be one that successfully combines and refines features of existing tools. A number of people I've talked to think that the Grivel Dark Machine is the one. |
|
Jeff Johnston wrote: That would only be an issue if good aftermarket pics weren't available. I've enjoyed my X-Dreams for years without any issues; they are now more popular than Nomics around here. It would be good to attend a festival or some such group outing where you'll be able to try out various tools, but if you like the swing and feel, you can't go too wrong with any of the top choices. Apart from the price, the Grivel Dark Machines look about perfect but I've yet to try them. |
|
Kai Larson wrote: I couldn't agree more, I don't think I can ever use a normal thickness pick again. Problem is, when I went down to the OO, I was surprised how quickly it folded the first time it hit rock, and the one pictured barely hit rock. I am a little surprised that Camp hasn't refined the grip on the Xdreams a little, that little move would probably have this gear whore buy another pair. I've been hearing a lot of love for the Dark Machines and I really need to try them again. The one pitch I've climbed in them there was something about the swing that I couldn't get used to but it was only one pitch. I normally obsess about the "feel" of my gear, but I really don't find that my carbon BD Cobras are much damper or different than aluminum tools, which is complete sacrilege to one of my partners (and Will Gadd). |
|
Feel matters, and what feels good to one climber will not feel the same to the next. I climb on X-Dreams and absolutely love them (soft stock picks notwithstanding), and I can't stand Nomics (or Quarks, FWIW). Something about the swing weight, pivot point, etc. just doesn't work for me. I like the BD Fuels well enough (although they're heavy), and I would probably like the Reactors but just haven't had an opportunity to swing them (and I do enjoy laps on my friend's Cobras). I will look hard at the Dark Machines when I'm in the market again. All that being said, demo/borrow/sample whatever you can before you pull the trigger. The differences between all of them are subtle but notable. |
|
I own the nomics and dark machines. The dark machines are so stiff, surprisingly the Nomic seems to dampen impacts more. Grivel could increase the dampening by adding rubber to the handle /or self wrapping. I like Petzl ice picks better but once grovels new razor pick comes out-I think I’ll climb more with the dark machines than the nomics. |
|
I would approach ice tools like you would approach boots or climbing shoes. Focus on finding tools that fit your hands (and gloves) well. In my opinion, the differences in handle / pommel shapes and sizes are much more significant than the differences in pick (stock), head, or shaft design. Keep in mind that some handles can be modified by grinding away material where you don't want it and adding material where you do want it. I would suggest renting, borrowing, or buying used until you have had a chance to try out all of the tools you are interested in. If you take a trip to Ouray, you will likely be able to try every ice tool that you are interested in, within a few days. |
|
Now that it's morning and I'm not drinking (yet), a few more thoughts- If one is on the fence on the great Xdream vs Nomic debate, the Xdream has the advantage of the adjustable grip position (ice vs dry). This means the Xdream can function like a Nomic or Ergonomic. This feature is not a gimmick, I find it quite brilliant. Regarding Grivel Dark Machines, I don't know anything about their stock picks so this thought is a little ignorant, but I assume there are a lot less aftermarket picks available for Grivels (compared to Camp and Petzl tools). So, if wanna turn your $400 tools into $500 tools (by upgrading picks) like I seem to like to do, there will be less options. |
|
All the options above are good. Whatever tool you buy, you will learn to swing it. Variations in swing are more perceptible when you are already used to a different tool, then have to "re-learn" if you switch to something else. I climb with x dreams, because I like how they hook into mushrooms. But I think the nomics are a better built tool, so I'd recommend them more. I'm constantly fixing things and dicking around with x dreams, they are high maintenance. Never a problem with nomics. Bottom line, I'd buy whatever tool you can get a good deal on. Tons of great deals to be found on the MP for sale forum.... There's some dark machines on their right now that I've been drooling over.... |
|
Viper Ice Tool Hammer was my ice climbing tool of choice for the last 10+ years and very good all-around, but more for ice than rock. Camp X-Dream Ice Tool is what I have been using the last two years and it is better on ice and much better on rock. I like both of these ice tools because they fit my hands and my hands are pretty big. I was surprised at how many tools are made for small hands. Be sure to actually use the ice tool, with the gloves that you will be climbing with, before you buy them! |
|
Well clearly there seem to be 2 tools in the top running. I own and climb on both the X-dreams and the Nomics. As others have stated it mostly falls down to personal preference. But just one difference that I haven't seen pointed out. The X-dream is a more aggressive angle than the Nomic even on the ice setting. This is great for steep ice and even better for steep drytooling, but it can be an issue on easy ice. Because of how aggressive the angle is, the handle can get in the way when swinging over bulges....it makes you swing more like a chop than a wrist flick. Were this becomes problematic is that lower angle rolling WI3. On that terrain I continually find myself changing my swing because of the aggressive angle. And it isn't just me....all my partners feel the same way. As a result I would recommend the Nomic for a beginner who is going to be climbing a lot on this type of terrain. Years later when the person gets around to leading WI5 they could change to the X-dream if they want. |
|
Definitely agree. I did not like x dreams at all on low angle terrain. |
|
If you rotate your ice tools around your index finger, climbing low angle ice is easy with any ice tool on the market (when equipped with an open angle pick optimized for ice climbing). The pommel should be as close as possible to the ice (without touching), when you finish your swing. An able bodied climber should eventually be able to learn to use any tool effectively on any terrain. Swap picks, as necessary, to climb whatever you want to climb. I have used every ice tool currently in production from the “big 4” (Petzl, Grivel, Camp, and BD), except the Dark Machines. I would be happy to climb low angle or steep ice on any of them. |