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Thoughts on Via Ferrata in the USA?
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I know this topic has been debated ad nauseam in other forums / Wyoming State Park comment boards, but i'm curious to hear from a climbers (and specifically route developer) perspective! Here are my thoughts and I would love to hear opinions:
I would love to hear yall's thoughts? Especially those that have experienced via ferrata irl! Cheers! |
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I personally would like to see some via farreta show up across the country on public land. And I think it serves a different part of the community. It's going to catch some of the hiking community and take them into a more vertical realm. Example I can get my wife to climb a little with me, but she won't touch multipitch, but via farreta she might. Also a good climb is going to be a lot about the movement and problem solving, where as a good via ferrata is going to be about the views. Utah is likely to put an ugly giant gondola up LCC to serve skiers for a few days a year, might as well add some via ferrata while we are at it. I am against the gondola idea, but would actually be in favor of adding a bunch of public via ferrata around the state. But it would be a balancing act of protecting rock climbing, wildlife, scenery, and the experience of being outside. And the challenge of balancing those aspects for all users of our public lands is something I'm not sure everyone is willing to discuss, let alone actually try and tackle. |
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There are a few in Colorado, including some that I think are new ish. I know a few climbers that have taken their non climbing friends/partners on them and had a great time. Doesn't seem to be much controversy surrounding them. Haven't done any myself but it sounds like a good time. |
Nathan P wrote: Ethically via ferrata and sport climbing are the same thing, a testament to the arrogance of mankind. |
Nathan P wrote: 2. Is bolting a crack putting "handrails on cliffs" or is it allowing a more diverse set of users to experience mountainous / emotionally complex terrain/Indian Creek many of us enjoy? |
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Baltimore McAllister wrote: I get how this slope can be slippery and can be used to justify a whole slew of less than ideal climbing ethics... That's why I wanted to get some opinions on where to draw the lines! And yeah the half dome cables are a form of "Via Ferrata" (loosely, "Iron Path"), but probably some of the worst hardware, up the most incredible feature. Thanks for the thoughts thus far! |
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I think it might be cool to see 3 or 4 good via ferratas go up, but it's a slippery slope. If one goes up over here then what to stop someone from doing it over there. Private land seems like a much better arrangement to keep it in check, definitely don't want to see them on public land. I'd rather see none than have a proliferation appear. I'm totally fine with it being a special thing that you can do in Europe. I'd be okay with paying ~$10, but it has to be independent, if it's a guided-only thing, like they have at some ski resorts now, then forget it. |
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Via ferrata the world! Imagine installing 8 times as many glue ins, now imagine not being a climber and trying to navigate climbin terrain. We could hold an instructional demo at the wall everyday and maybe one person would be psyched enough to do it. We are the free loaders. We constantly use hiking trails the least we could do is share a blank rock face. |
Scott D wrote: This |
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Don't need them. |
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we did the one in telluride. it was a hoot.  That being said how do you ensure that existing climbs are not impacted and that development is thoughtful and restrained? |
Nick Goldsmith wrote: Seems like this level of alteration should require a NEPA just like any public multi-use trail would. A resort or a volunteer group could raise the money needed and fund construction. A free for all almost certainly would lead to, shoddy work or excessive environmental damage, and land managers would step in with regulations. |
Tim McCabe wrote: |
Bb Cc wrote: Ha, really not a bad idea… and who hasn’t looked up an ugly blank concrete wall and thought as much! |
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Apparently some folks were sitting on that bench up on the teluride Via feratta watching and listening to the Pearl jam concert. I hear that Mushrooms were involved ;) |
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Having done both VF in Europe (a few classics in Sella Ronda Region) as well as Ouray / Telluride etc I think the VAST majority of comments turning a nose up at then are by North American climbers who have never done them or not done them in the context they are intended. They 100% can coexist and do across the world. These comments come from me as a 3 decade trad climber who's formative years were at the Gunks, NH and then Cali / PNW so not exactly a sport climber although I certainly do enjoy that too.In my experience, VF often takes lines that MOST climbers would consider to be "easy" or "lacking challenge" There are rock quality issues that often come up too where the VF navigates through terrain a climber might not enjoy but the route path still is quite impressive. The Dolomites are FULL of these opportunities and any glance at a guidebook for there or NUMEROUS other places in the Alps will indicate as much. VFs require MASSIVE amounts of work and $$$. We're talking exponentially more than your average sport route so the idea that shitty ones will pop up all over, while not zero, is WAY WAY down a list of concerns. Never mind the challenges with permitting etc on managed lands. Ouray VFs (both awesome) are the only public ones outside the Telluride one that I know of off the top of my head. The vast majority are pay to play on ski resorts and $$$. Private Land Developments. I really wish ski resorts would work on some sort of licensing where you could have your "open water cert" equivalent and pay to use them vs paying silly money to be "guided". There' simply no way I'm paying their asking price to be guided - day passes at Deer Valley are a bargain comparatively ! (EDIT: I just looked at JHMR 2023 pricing and they look to be learning that people won' shell out $300+ per person so that's good. Still not cheap!) They'd secure a better revenue stream I suspect! Euro VFs often feed you a Refugio at the top where you're $$ gets spent on great food after the adventure. (not sure on funding in Europe but sometimes I think local vendors support to encourage tourism etc). VF targets a different audience than we "pure climbers". The challenges are different to some degree and the joy comes more from the continuous movement and places shared with a moving-together group than the focussed and solo challenge of overcoming physical difficulty. I've multi pitch climbed all over with friends and my wife and I can tell you, a long VF in the mountains is a wonderful experience as well. Constant movement in close proximity to friends etc in adventurous places is amazing. I enjoy both but for different reasons. Now, as a father with two kids and wife, VF also allows my ENTIRE family of 4 to enjoy the experience collectively. We can "multipitch" together for hours. Not possible with a rope and rack really. That and my kids FAR prefer the "ropes course" style of movement to the sit and wait style of pure climbing and it is FAR more approachable for them vs jamming or slab terrors. While we all have levels of desire to preserve nature as is, there remains MASSIVE amounts of open space in North America. A VF here or there will have impacts but far less than I suspect we all worry about. And as a Side note - Similar "fears" of gondolas etc seem to pop up all the time now with the LCC proposal. Again, Europe has them ALL OVER and they really are just part of the Mtn Culture and landscape. And man do they make recreating in the Alps a blast. To each their own. Some places should remain as wild as possible but having done some limited exploration in Europe, I can say VFs that are PUBLIC are something I'd like to see more off. For now, I've found canyoning the closest public equivalent that provides adv for my family.... Sorta "downward VFs"       |
mattm wrote: Looks fun great pics! |
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Hadn't thought about the family aspect of VF, did some very fun and nice in that way. And canyoneering is great, hoping to convince my wife to come do a bigger canyon this year. I am not opposed to adding gondolas in places, but the one in LCC does bother me because LCC is so very Scenic and the gondola is going to be an eye sore. And it's a huge public project to solve a problem that could probably be solved much cheaper without hurting the canyon. But if they went a few miles south and did one from draper up onto the ridge line of lone peak I would be all about it. I don't think it would impact the views of the mountain to much, and you could add bike trails down to corner canyon. I would think you could also get the same winds as point of the mountain that makes it world class paragliding, increase the access to the enjoyable hiking, and great climbing. |
Marc801 C wrote: So not a free for all with any wannabe's out there sticking rebar in rock, seems like that could get ugly real quick. I think one of my MTB friends did this this summer and said it was great. VF should treated the same as trail building and it's not legal to go and cut your own trails on public lands, people can't just go and make their own VF, I think that answers the original question from Nick "That being said how do you ensure that existing climbs are not impacted and that development is thoughtful and restrained?" The next question is how long until it actually becomes an issue? |
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