Starting a guiding company. How?

Hello, I am in the process of starting my own guiding company. There are some topics I am struggling to find information about, and would love some help.

What would the company (me and the investor) be liable for? Do we need an insurance policy, and if so what kind?

I know a permit is required to guide in national forests, but how do I go about getting it? And how much does it cost? I am looking to guide solely in Pisgah national forest in North Carolina.

Any help or resources would be greatly appreciated. 

Isn't the time honored way to start off guiding for another outfit, learn all this from them, build a client list and then steal those clients to start your own company?  

By virtue of asking these questions, you're not ready to start your own guiding company.

Hire a guide for a day. While you're  climbing, ask these questions.

Start getting your training and certifications through the AMGA.

Get your WFR certification.

Have you ever used a guide before?

Hi James- send me a PM and I'll answer any questions I can. 

Many people have started "guiding" companies by the seat of their pants, just set up shop and you will learn as you go.

Shhhhhhhhh...most "guides" just ignore the permit requirements.

Perhaps you should work on skills and certifications first. You don't even have an SPI? 

Find a dad trying to get famous off his son. Ignore local rules regarding guiding. Profit. 

Tradiban wrote:

Shhhhhhhhh...most "guides" just ignore the permit requirements.

No, they don’t.

Maybe you are running into them at Tahquitz where a single company has the permit and pirate guiding is everywhere, but the vast majority of guides have more respect for the boxes you need to check.

The cost of pirate guiding is more then fines. You risk park bans, the inability to operate in parks in the future, issues / decertification from accreditation bodies, inability to use your guiding insurance, and a whole litany of other bullshit which can ruin your career.

It’s not worth it. Don’t do it.

Buy tons of liability insurance.

Tyler Stockdale wrote:

No, they don’t.

Maybe you are running into them at Tahquitz where a single company has the permit and pirate guiding is everywhere, but the vast majority of guides have more respect for the boxes you need to check.

The cost of pirate guiding is more then fines. You risk park bans, the inability to operate in parks in the future, issues / decertification from accreditation bodies, inability to use your guiding insurance, and a whole litany of other bullshit which can ruin your career.

It’s not worth it. Don’t do it.

Lol, Josh is ground zero for pirate guiding. 

Yes, you might get caught roping up a bunch of boy scouts at trash can (btw the Boy Scouts have their own “certification” and they “guide” less permit pretty much everywhere) but take a client or two into the wonderland and nobody the wiser. This happens DAILY.

How about putting the effort into finding out the information on your own instead of taking the lazy way and ask other folks who’ve put in the time and done the work? All the information is out there. The AMGA is probably your best resource. Oh, you’re probably not ready to run a business if you don’t wanna spend the time up front as it tends to be more work once the business is actually up and running. 

Tyler Stockdale wrote:

You risk park bans, 

Do they have your mug shot up at the entrance booth? Or how does this work?

just curious, aren't there other shitty paying jobs out there that don't ruin climbing for you?

Mark NH wrote:

How about putting the effort into finding out the information on your own instead of taking the lazy way and ask other folks who’ve put in the time and done the work? All the information is out there. The AMGA is probably your best resource. Oh, you’re probably not ready to run a business if you don’t wanna spend the time up front as it tends to be more work once the business is actually up and running. 

How do you know he's not pursuing those avenues? This is just another source of information and it's smart for him to seek advice here IN ADDITION to wherever else he may be seeking advice.
But really... why do you care?

Hi James, I own Shuteye Ridge Climbing School, I get started teaching climbing classes at the gym (Planet Granite) worked there for 17 years or so and then when I decided to guide outdoors I took the guide class to get my certs and there are other good company's out there to get your guide certs then just AMGA, and you will need your wilderness first aid certs, I used Nols for that and you will need to renew that every 2 years. Insurance is not that hard to get just look around  on line make some calls and you will find the right insurance you will need. To get a permit you first need to get the guide certs and first aid certs and proof of your insurance and small business license  when filling out the app for your permit, well thats the procedure here in Calif not sure what the procedure is in N.Car.? If you need addition info PM me glad to help, good luck happy climbing Mike A.

Mark NH wrote:

How about putting the effort into finding out the information on your own instead of taking the lazy way and ask other folks who’ve put in the time and done the work? All the information is out there.

Maybe drop the presumption and try reading the OP again? He even wrote: "There are some topics I am struggling to find information about..." Sounds like he's already doing what you confrontationally suggest.

James Fulton wrote:

Do we need an insurance policy?

Marc801 C wrote:

Maybe drop the presumption and try reading the OP again? He even wrote: "There are some topics I am struggling to find information about..." Sounds like he's already doing what you confrontationally suggest.

Here's the things the OP didn't do:

1. Call a guide service to ask these questions.
2. Call the Forest Service to ask about the permit process.
3. Contact the AMGA (or read their website) to learn about certification or guiding in general.

Doing those things isn't a "struggle"; it sounds like he didn't want to bother or hasn't heard of the AMGA.

I think you should make some effort to do a little research on your own before you crowdsource these questions.

Haven't you have been a proponent in the past for doing research before asking MP these questions?

I believe that many climbers, who have never been exposed to guiding, think, "I'm a good climber, so I'm ready to guide."

FrankPS wrote:

I believe that many climbers, who have never been exposed to guiding, think, "I'm a good climber, so I'm ready to guide."

Go check out Colorado (front range specifically). You don't even need to be a "good climber" to guide 5.7 ad nauseam.

Tradiban wrote:

Lol, Josh is ground zero for pirate guiding. 

Yes, you might get caught roping up a bunch of boy scouts at trash can (btw the Boy Scouts have their own “certification” and they “guide” less permit pretty much everywhere) but take a client or two into the wonderland and nobody the wiser. This happens DAILY.

It happens, but not daily. Not a single guide I know that is working consistently in the park would be willing to risk it that often. This is not the old school Wild West that Josh used to be. The overwhelming and massive majority of guides in this park are permitted.

The Boy Scouts now hire out guide companies for their merit badges. I know this because I teach those clinics. It takes accreditation, permits and insurance to get into their system as a merit badge provider and you need to be in their system to sign off on the kid’s forms. I have never once seen a boy scout troop in the park climbing without an accredited guide.

And I agree about the wonderland. Easy enough to get away with things out there but it’s not where the majority of guides would take a client. It takes a very specific type of climber to fit that bill normally, and it’s not the most common type of guest that frequents the park. There are many more easily accessed areas to utilize that would provide the same experience or even better.

grug grug wrote:

Do they have your mug shot up at the entrance booth? Or how does this work?

It’s a good question that I don’t necessarily have the answer for. We do get our permits pulled in the park, and the recent increase of climbing and wilderness rangers are going to make this more frequent. When guiding in the park we are also required to show our guide cards at the front booth, although as you might point out this is easy enough to skirt. The national parks don’t necessarily have the budget they would need for draconian level enforcement but that doesn’t mean LEO’s wouldn’t have your license plates pulled if you had just been caught.

Marc801 C wrote:

Maybe drop the presumption and try reading the OP again? He even wrote: "There are some topics I am struggling to find information about..." Sounds like he's already doing what you confrontationally suggest.

I read the OP. The questions being asked are basic questions if you research just a little or use readily available resources like the AMGA. Could I have come across being less a dick - yeah, my bad. Before morning coffee.