Mutli-day High Sierra alpine climbing trip during the summer - what is your kit?

Hello! Long time ultralight backpacker here and I've been climbing for a few years, both trad and sport. I feel that I have my ultralight backpacking kit dialed in, in that I can comfortably take off for 7-10 day trips off-trail in the remote Sierra at a moment's notice and be plenty comfortable with what I have. I also feel that I have a comfortable kit for cragging or long single-day multi-pitch adventures.

Where I'm a bit stuck is trying to figure out what kind of kit is ideal for multi-day trips into the high sierra during summer where I'll be spending most of my days climbing long mutli-pitch routes at elevation. Here are some open questions:

1. Given that one has to carry a bunch of backpacking gear (tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, stove, etc) AND has to carry all of one's climbing gear, what kind of backpack is ideal? Let's say I'm going on a 4 night trip that involves 10-15 miles of backpacking into the backcountry to make a base camp followed by 3 days of remote alpine climbing and then hiking back out. Should I just use a regular large backpacking backpack? When I'm on-route I'm also going to want a pack to hold layers, food, water, etc. Do I bring a second small pack to accomplish this?

2. What kind of layers is one bringing? I know this is pretty personal, but what is your preferred insulating layer? Do you get something rugged and synthetic for cold belays while on the cliff face? Do you bring a fleece layer like the R1, or do you go with a synthetic active layer like the Patagonia Nano Air? When I'm backpacking I normally bring a super light down hoody and a light active fleece like the R1, but an ultralight down jacket feels like the wrong piece to bring for multipitch climbing (too fragile and susceptible to moisture). 

2.5 I'm currently looking at something like the Nuclei FL as my insulating layer. Is something like this warm enough for hanging out around camp at night at 13,000 feet of elevation in the sierra?

3. What gear that one normally brings on a backpacking trip gets left behind on a climbing trip? It seems like, even for a 4 day backpacking trip, one's backpack is mostly full when including food, tent, sleeping bag, etc. How does one make room for a double rack of trad gear, harness, climbing shoes, rope, etc, while also having enough stuff to make a comfortable base camp? Do we just plan on having significantly heavier packs?

3.5 Does one normally bring an inflatable sleeping pad? An eggshell one? What about sleeping bags, does one go with an ultralight summer-weight bag?

Thanks!

As far as the pack goes, I like a pack that handles heavy loads well because face it, compared to your UL set up it’s going to feel like you are carrying a car on your back so get a good pack.  I like Osprey packs as their suspension systems work well for me with heavy loads.  

Make sure your partner has a large enough pack or you will end up carrying more than your fair share, or make sure you have a smaller pack and make him carry more.  

Obviously you are going to be splitting gear equitably.   Maybe you carry the rope and draws and he carries the rack.  

I bring a summit pack with me for climbing, it is super small and light and doesn’t take up too much room.  

I never bring a tent but that’s just me, I bring a fly and rig up a shelter if needed.   It never rains in the Sierra at night anyway lol.  

1.  I prefer a larger backpacking pack with all of the climbing gear since the load can get pretty heavy.  I'll pack a lightweight pack for on route.  Others may disagree but I don't mind bringing a lightweight 15-20L pack for the route.  I find it easier than trying to compress a 40L pack that is challenging to accommodate your kit on the way in.  This depends on the route.  If it's an easy route with a very light rack then my strategy might change.  But if I'm climbing near my limit with a double rack then I bring the backpacking pack.  

2.  Sun shirt, wind shirt (I prefer a BD Alpine Start), light rain coat, puffy.  I might also pack a light vest if it's looking a bit cold.  Light soft shell pants for climbing.  Maybe shorts for the hike if it's warm.  It's pretty warm in the Sierra in summer.  If I'm climbing a north facing route in September or it's forecasted to be colder, I'll wear a heavier base layer on the route, either a Patagonia thermal weight Capilene hoody or an R1 hoody.  

2.5.  That should work totally fine.  I've used that same jacket on summer nights in the Sierra.  Lots of opinions on down vs synthetic, but I that should be more than sufficient.  If you're just standing around camp you can always wrap up in your sleeping bag for some extra warmth.  Synthetic is nice as a belay coat for on route if it rains, since you don't have to worry as much about precipitation and your jacket getting a little wet.  It's my preference.  But of course down works fine for plenty of folks and it's overall warmer.  

3.  Just keep your backpacking kit as light as possible but you still have to bring the essentials.  Don't bring superfluous shit and pack carefully.  But yeah, it can add up, which is why I prefer a larger pack for these type of missions.  Rope over the top on the outside helps.  

3.5.  Yes, inflatable pad for me.  Just be careful with it and it should be fine.  I bring a foam sit pad usually for camp. Summer weight sleeping bag is fine.   

I'm going to assume the possibility of setting a base camp at 10- 12k and climbing a route at 13-14k which is common in the Sierra. Also assuming trailheads around 8-9k and high summer temps. 

In my opinion, at least a 65 ltr. pack. Something with suspension and airflow (summer) but fairly tight to the torso for scrambling. Osprey has nice backpacking packs like this. Alpine packs that rest directly against your back are hot and have few external pockets. They're designed for climbing and the possibility of snow and aren't a great option for organizing a bunch of gear. 

Then a super light 25-30 ltr flash pack that sleeves, fully loaded with your climbing gear, into the main pouch of your big pack. I'd say 18 ltr. but climbing routes at altitude, you'll need layers. I'd have the flash pack completely packed and ready for climb day, this helps with efficiency. I use an Alpha which is fairly water proof and minimal weight. I have a separate pack list for the flash pack and the main pack- less tweaking and fumbling this way. 

Water at camp- I use drops and an MSR bladder to process a lot of water in one effort, for cooking, drinking and coffee. On trail I use a Mini Sawyer screwed onto a Smart water bottle to fill at streams and move fast. I have a pump but it's too much time and weight. 

A tent is nice for managing mosquitoes, summer storms and Marmots. I'd avoid early July because of Mosquitos. Early June and late August seem to be nice- again, my opinion. 

A phone with something like Gaia, pre downloaded, offline maps and lots of way-points.

There's so much crap to think of. It's like going car camping on a micro scale and you can't afford to forget anything because of the consequences. There's tough trade-offs regarding comfort vs. weight.  It's difficult to get below 50lbs on an extended climbing/backpacking trip with two full racks of trad gear and a tent. There's definitely alternative strategies for traveling lighter and faster with trade-offs for comfort. 

Thanks for the replies, everyone! This is a summary of what I've gathered so far:

1. There is no "secret" that I'm missing here. Figuring out the right kit for long trips that combine the sport of backpacking and multipitch trad climbing is difficult and highly personal. No matter which way you cut it, you're going to be dragging more weight out there than you would on a simple ultralight backpacking trip, and that increased weight needs to be accounted for when selecting for a backpack. One is likely better off going with a "traditional" non-ultralight backpack for these types of trips so that the increased weight is more comfortably carried.

2. As you won't be out there free soloing (or, if you were, you wouldn't have a rope or gear anyway), you'll be able to split some of the excess weight strategically with a partner. Figure out how to balance trad racks, rope, harnesses, shoes, etc with the camping gear that you're going to be sharing (likely sharing a tent, cook setup, water filter, etc)

3. Layering is highly personal. You'll want something that can keep you warm while belaying high on the granite cliffs but also something that doesn't entirely weigh you and your pack down.

Keep the responses coming, please! I'll continue taking notes

I’m assuming your asking about alpine routes that are predominantly on rock, with minimal or incidental snow climbing.

One other aspect to consider is the climbing gear itself.  Just like with UL backpacking gear, you can shave ounces here and there on your rack, and it can really add up to some substantial weight savings.  Also just like UL backpacking, you can go overboard trying to shave weight and spend waaay too much money to drop mere grams.  However, if alpine climbing is your main objective, then do get the lightest climbing gear possible in nearly every category, as it will help.  For example, a full set of 13 Wild Country UL nuts is nearly a half pound lighter than a full set of 12 BD stoppers (plus the ULs have more size overlap between individual nuts).  A full set of BD ultralight Camalots will save you several pounds over the regulars (and cost you at least three times as much).  Wild Country cams are each a bit lighter than their (standard) BD counterpart and have an extendable sling, which could mean you can bring fewer runners and save some more weight.  Metolius UL cams are excellent in the smaller ranges and basically just as light as UL Camalots in those smaller ranges.  A 60 meter Beal Joker 9.1mm rope can be used as a single, double, or twin, and is a good deal lighter than any 9.5 or higher.  Or (my usual go to) a set of 7.8mm twin 60m ropes can allow for full-length rappels at a weight only slightly higher than a single 9.5, and that weight can be divided into two people’s packs (and for alpine routes with only short technical sections, a single 60m twin rope can be doubled up to allow for a nearly 100-foot pitch protected with two strands).  Most people’s runners are already the super skinny dyneema ones these days, but definitely do those if yours are not already.  Many people use mini carabiners (like the Metolius or BD minis) for their UL alpine draws— this can work fine for summer alpine stuff when you are not likely to be wearing gloves— but there are even some carabiners now well under 30 grams that are closer to full size.  The CAMP Nano is a fairly big “mini,” and the Cypher Mydas at 24 grams is similarly generous in its dimensions for a smaller carabiner.  For lots of alpine climbing, you aren’t likely to be hanging at lots of belay stations, so if you aren’t particularly large or heavy you can probably get away with a minimalist harness, even an “alpine” or skimo harness, as long as it still has real climbing features like a full-strength belay loop and gear loops.  The really high end Arc’teryx full-fledged harnesses and other low profile harnesses like the BD Solution or Petzl Sitta are basically almost as light and packable as those skimo harnesses, but check out also things like the CAMP Flash Alpine. For belay devices, check out the old Edelrid Megajul (just be ready for it to give a jerky ride on rappel).  For locking carabiners, there are a few clever designs that give the same security without the bulky screw gate— just be sure they actually save weight and/or bulk, as some are just as heavy as a good lightweight locker.

It goes without saying that your rope and rack can be adjusted to your objective. If you know the route(s) you intend, try to learn about the size of gear you might need and the amount of technical terrain you’ll encounter. In some cases, a set of nuts and a few cams may get the job done, and a 30-meter rope can be a nice thing to own, even if it’s just your old rope cut down to its best remaining section. From what you wrote about multi-day Sierra trips, you’re probable going for multiple routes per trip, each with multiple full-length pitches of moderate or difficult climbing, so a full “standard alpine rack” is likely required. Nonetheless, you may be able to get away with leaving the #4 at home and assuming you’ll find smaller cracks (that take lighter pro) along the way or run out the wide bits, for example. User notes on MP are helpful for this fine tuning of the rack.

I agree with the sentiment above that a beefy pack that can haul many pounds is worth the weight. Heck, until last year my load-hauler backpack was a 1994 Dana Designs Terraplane Pro— the kind made entirely with 1000-denier cordura. It weighed more than 7 pounds empty, but it could handle as much weight as I could give it and was indestructible. I didn’t retire it because it broke. It swallowed ropes, racks, crampons, ice screws, hammer drills, you name it.
 

FWIW, I do climb with a lightweight down jacket (versus synthetic) and don’t worry too much about the durability.  I’m wearing it at belays and in camp, and if I need to be moving in it I put it under my soft shell layer that is much more abrasion resistant.  That’s one “heavier” clothing layer I don’t always take UL backpacking that I do take alpine climbing every time:  a stretch-woven “soft shell” layer for top and bottom.  Like the OR Ferrosi layers.  That’s your main climbing suit, at least in drier-and-sunnier-but-windy ranges like the Rockies and Sierras.  If it’s cold, I have an R1-type layer underneath.  If it’s warm, I have a synthetic t-shirt.

The main backpacking gear I have left at home for an alpine climbing trip was the stove and pot.  Only for a few single night objectives, when there was a burrito place on the way to the trailhead.  caffeinated powdered drink mix in place of morning coffee.  Energy bars in place of morning oatmeal.  Mostly those have been sad, cold-feeling mornings. I would never do that to myself for more than a single overnight.

Don't overlook weight you can save on your climbing gear. An alpine rope like Beal Opera can save pounds. You will probably commit to a climb that is well within your ability, so you can choose a lighter rack than you would for cragging. The caveat is that you have to be ready to bail and you should not expect fixed gear. I carry more bailing gear like rap rings and webbing on alpine routes, but try to leave the big cams and bring extra nuts. You often have a lot of choices for gear placements.

My personal high-Sierra backcountry climbing kit:

1: Pack - Hyperlite Ice 70L. Carried loads exceptionally well, can handle any size load from 40-70L which tends to be enough space. Simple and light, easy to pack because it’s a giant tube. I’ll pack a small 15-20L pack if if I feel like I need one on route  

2: Layering - Sun hoody + Houdini is used for 90% of rock climbing conditions for me. If it’s shoulder season I’ll throw in an R1, or possibly a nano-air vest. A light synthetic jacket like a nuclei or DAS light would be my go-to jacket, but also it’s and sunny in the Sierra 90% of the time so a down is often fine if that’s what you have. Wouldn’t climb in down or use on a multi-day route though personally for reasons you mentioned.

3: Base camp gear - I often don’t take a tent and just open bivy if weather is looking splitter for the whole trip (which it usually is). Otherwise as light of a tent is you can find is great. Maybe Ultamid or something like that using poles to save space and weight.  

3.5 Sleeping - same kit as your thru-hiking one probably is fine. I use a light inflatable like a Neo-air and a 30* FF bag. If I’m bivyiny on route I’ll use a 3/4 foam pad instead.

Hope that helps some!

Josh and Maria have good advice on lighter kit.  To add to that theme one could use a beal escaper rather than carrying a 2nd rope for rappels which could save the weight of an entire rope. 

You can count on approximately 10 pounds more weight if you're adding climbing gear, provided you and your partner split the weight of the rope and rack.

Personally, I won't backpack in the Sierra without a tent, due to mosquitoes and rain. I have the Z-Packs Duplex tent, which weighs 21 oz.

Trying to answer your questions as succinctly as possible:

•  giant pack, second climbing pack(s). 
• Sometimes separate hiking shoes/boots and approach/descent shoes
• Nanopuff + alpine Houdini, add R1 if colder. Hat and gloves in pack. I run warm.
• 20 degree bag (cold at elevation) and inflatable pad.
• Light(er) climbing gear (60m rope, thoughtful gear selection). Don't go too light for the objective though. Better to suffer on the hike than the climb.
• Don't forget about about snow traction, etc. if called for
• 13kft in early June usually feels like winter. Nuclei probably not warm enough. August would be fine and is prime high Sierra season.

John Allard wrote:

Hello! Long time ultralight backpacker here and I've been climbing for a few years, both trad and sport. I feel that I have my ultralight backpacking kit dialed in, in that I can comfortably take off for 7-10 day trips off-trail in the remote Sierra at a moment's notice and be plenty comfortable with what I have. I also feel that I have a comfortable kit for cragging or long single-day multi-pitch adventures.

Where I'm a bit stuck is trying to figure out what kind of kit is ideal for multi-day trips into the high sierra during summer where I'll be spending most of my days climbing long mutli-pitch routes at elevation. Here are some open questions:

1. Given that one has to carry a bunch of backpacking gear (tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, stove, etc) AND has to carry all of one's climbing gear, what kind of backpack is ideal? Let's say I'm going on a 4 night trip that involves 10-15 miles of backpacking into the backcountry to make a base camp followed by 3 days of remote alpine climbing and then hiking back out. Should I just use a regular large backpacking backpack? When I'm on-route I'm also going to want a pack to hold layers, food, water, etc. Do I bring a second small pack to accomplish this?

2. What kind of layers is one bringing? I know this is pretty personal, but what is your preferred insulating layer? Do you get something rugged and synthetic for cold belays while on the cliff face? Do you bring a fleece layer like the R1, or do you go with a synthetic active layer like the Patagonia Nano Air? When I'm backpacking I normally bring a super light down hoody and a light active fleece like the R1, but an ultralight down jacket feels like the wrong piece to bring for multipitch climbing (too fragile and susceptible to moisture). 

2.5 I'm currently looking at something like the Nuclei FL as my insulating layer. Is something like this warm enough for hanging out around camp at night at 13,000 feet of elevation in the sierra?

3. What gear that one normally brings on a backpacking trip gets left behind on a climbing trip? It seems like, even for a 4 day backpacking trip, one's backpack is mostly full when including food, tent, sleeping bag, etc. How does one make room for a double rack of trad gear, harness, climbing shoes, rope, etc, while also having enough stuff to make a comfortable base camp? Do we just plan on having significantly heavier packs?

3.5 Does one normally bring an inflatable sleeping pad? An eggshell one? What about sleeping bags, does one go with an ultralight summer-weight bag?

Thanks!

1) I'm a huge fan of the Osprey Mutant series. Currently have the 38L (have plans to buy the other two) - that worked well for my wife and I when we did a 3 day up Whitney last summer. I carried all the climbing gear, shelter (MSR Advance Pro), and stove kit (windburner solo + reusable starbucks cup). I've been elk hunting for the past 5 years with an 85L Osprey Aether, which I would bring if I needed the capacity for more than a couple days. If you're going to carry a bear bin, factor that into your pack size. My wife carries the food so she usually does a larger pack. Sometimes I'll trade her my sleeping bag for her water so she's got the less dense stuff.

I like to carry the lid of my big pack as a daypack whenever I can. My Aether has a hip belt that works well as a fanny pack or sling. I also have a BD Rock Blitz. My 38L mutant isn't too bad to climb with all day - wife wore it up Whitney and it's too big for her. 

2) My go-to system pretty much year round is a rapid drying, thin base layer with a mid layer I can run as an outer layer. I have a different weights of base layers but they all do a similar job. Main thing is to disperse sweat on the surface of the skin and release it as vapor quickly as I'm moving. I prefer polyester or a polyester blend, or nylon. Hollow fiber polypropylene tends to stink and merino dries slow. My mid layers change for conditions and season. When I'm elk hunting or climbing in winter, it's a Patagonia R2, the rest of the year it's a cheap Costco 200g fleece that I don't care about destroying in chimneys. If I'm not planning on any offwidth, I usually run an R1 during the summer.

I usually carry a hooded ~12oz puffy year round for wearing at night. I still prepare to see freezing temps at night above ~10k'. Always a 2.5l hardshell jacket with pit vents. I bring hardshell pants if the conditions call for it. 

I wear Wrangler/Eddie Bauer guide pants for pretty much everything. I use the lined EBs in the winter when I'm not wearing fleece+hardshell for snow/ice activities. I'd like a better pair of softshell pants.

2.5) I like softshells like that for 3 season climbing. They're usually more abrasion resistant and cut the wind well. If you wear a hardshell over it at night around camp, you'll stay noticeably warmer (if you need it). Bring a good hat and neck gaiter. You can always use your quilt for sitting around camp also. 

3) I'm pretty comfortable backpacking with. 45 lb pack, albeit a bit slower than when I'm running 30lbs or less. My serious ultralight backpacking load out is about 20 lbs and a double rack + shoes/harness/helmet is about 20 lbs. I'd like to get a lighter rope when my 60m 9.5mm dies. I'm starting to carry hexes to save weight with the rack.

3.5) I've been running an XLite/Xtherm depending on season for years. I like to bring a ZLite sometimes to protect the pad/add insulation/sit on while I'm eating/etc. I use cut up sections when I want to save weight. I sneak a ZSeat in our day packs as a backpanel so we've got them with us. We both have high fill down bags that are light. Mostly WM and ThermaRest. I like a synthetic quilt for warmer weather because it's durable and easy to launder. 

I’ve climbed with a mutant 38. Not bad with stays removed. Removing the brain seems nice but I find the attachment buckles left behind on the pack are very irritating to my shoulders.

1. Given that one has to carry a bunch of backpacking gear (tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, stove, etc) AND has to carry all of one's climbing gear, what kind of backpack is ideal? Let's say I'm going on a 4 night trip that involves 10-15 miles of backpacking into the backcountry to make a base camp followed by 3 days of remote alpine climbing and then hiking back out. Should I just use a regular large backpacking backpack? When I'm on-route I'm also going to want a pack to hold layers, food, water, etc. Do I bring a second small pack to accomplish this?

Two separate packs is always preferable, if you are not doing a carry over climb.  35-45 L backpack that can carry heavy loads comfortably for hiking into basecamp (i.e., Osprey Mutant 38). 8-16 L backpack for climbing.  I personally prefer climbing packs that do not interfere with a harness and keep everything as close to your body as possible (i.e., Blue Ice Reach).

2. What kind of layers is one bringing? I know this is pretty personal, but what is your preferred insulating layer? Do you get something rugged and synthetic for cold belays while on the cliff face? Do you bring a fleece layer like the R1, or do you go with a synthetic active layer like the Patagonia Nano Air? When I'm backpacking I normally bring a super light down hoody and a light active fleece like the R1, but an ultralight down jacket feels like the wrong piece to bring for multipitch climbing (too fragile and susceptible to moisture). 

During the summer months, I usually bring 4 upper body layers (sun hoody, active insulation base layer / mid layer, soft shell / wind shell, belay parka).  

2.5 I'm currently looking at something like the Nuclei FL as my insulating layer. Is something like this warm enough for hanging out around camp at night at 13,000 feet of elevation in the sierra?

If you have an R1 or similar active insulation layer on underneath, a Nuclei FL should work.

3. What gear that one normally brings on a backpacking trip gets left behind on a climbing trip? It seems like, even for a 4 day backpacking trip, one's backpack is mostly full when including food, tent, sleeping bag, etc. How does one make room for a double rack of trad gear, harness, climbing shoes, rope, etc, while also having enough stuff to make a comfortable base camp? Do we just plan on having significantly heavier packs?

3.5 Does one normally bring an inflatable sleeping pad? An eggshell one? What about sleeping bags, does one go with an ultralight summer-weight bag?

No essential backpacking gear that you can leave behind.  Your pack will be significantly heavier.  For a party of two, one person usually carries the rope while the other carries the rack.

Sleeping pad and bag choice is personal.  It also somewhat depends on where you plan to camp and what kind of shelter you have.  No fundamental difference from ultralight hiking, as long as you are not bivying on a climbing route.  

Only one post so far even mentioned bear canisters, which are supposed to be carried in the parts of the Sierra that you're probably interested in. But if you're using one, it's crucial to pack selection. I've found, after many years and much frustration, that my 70L Osprey can't efficiently and comfortably accommodate the larger Bear Vault; an 85L pack is required. The smaller version will work in the smaller pack, and will suffice if there are only two of you going out for a couple of nights. NB--I said, supposed to.

Multi-day? Don't dismiss the notion of horse packers. Go big, go comfy, make a base camp in some remote area, have the packer drop off your load (about 200 lbs per mule if memory serves), live like Kings!

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

Multi-day? Don't dismiss the notion of horse packers. Go big, go comfy, make a base camp in some remote area, have the packer drop off your load (about 200 lbs per mule if memory serves), live like Kings!

It is Kings Canyon, after all!

Paul Morrison wrote:

Only one post so far even mentioned bear canisters, which are supposed to be carried in the parts of the Sierra that you're probably interested in. But if you're using one, it's crucial to pack selection. I've found, after many years and much frustration, that my 70L Osprey can't efficiently and comfortably accommodate the larger Bear Vault; an 85L pack is required. The smaller version will work in the smaller pack, and will suffice if there are only two of you going out for a couple of nights. NB--I said, supposed to.

I always bring a bear canister into the Sierra, I've got both the BV500 and BV450 but I'm looking into some of the carbon fiber ones for more space at lower weight. Interestingly enough, I have a 70L UL pack (ULA catalyst) and it can hold a BV500 just fine horizontally. I've found I can comfortably get 7-8 person-days of food in a BV500

John Allard wrote:

I always bring a bear canister into the Sierra, I've got both the BV500 and BV450 but I'm looking into some of the carbon fiber ones for more space at lower weight. Interestingly enough, I have a 70L UL pack (ULA catalyst) and it can hold a BV500 just fine horizontally. I've found I can comfortably get 7-8 person-days of food in a BV500

7-8 is about what I get too unless doing something crazy like packing it full of peanut butter. Horizontal is the way to go for packing them, my Terraframe 65 holds one perfectly, makes packing the rest of the gear a breeze and doesn't lose space in the corners.