Why are women allowed to climb without a shirt in a gym but men cannot?

Kevin Worrall wrote:

Because, in spite of feminist claims that they want equal treatment for all, across society, they feel entitled to exclusively decide what kind of language and behavior is appropriate and allowable for men.

Think of the t shirt you have to wear in the gym as a burka. And be careful what you name that route.

It's 6 days until 2023. I can't believe I just read that.

1. As others have pointed out, women in sport bras are not topless. Wear a tank top, if you hate a T-shirt. 

2. there are lots of gyms (climbing, as well as general fitness) that do not allow women to work out in sport bras, requiring a shirt that covers midriff and shoulders. Utah and Bible Belt are most common places for such rules. A friend of mine had a confrontation about it a few years ago. The large-chain fitness gym where she was working out had a promotional poster on the wall with a girl on a treadmill wearing a sports bra, but my friend was told she couldn’t work out in a sports bra. When she pointed out the poster, the gym’s solution was to take down the poster. She quit that gym. If you are so upset about having to wear a shirt, you, too, have an option of quitting.

3. I’m most surprised by the number of people who think these kinds of rules are made by women/for women. They most definitely aren’t.

4. Ultimately, it is up to individual business owners. Couple gyms in the area allow shirts off, others don’t. I started climbing in a non-air-conditioned gym where almost everyone climbed shirtless in summer. Then a new owner instituted a shirt-on policy. People grumbled, but had no other choice in a gym at the time, so they complied.
The gym where I climb now has no shirt-on policy. But it is somewhat-air-conditioned. And the mats are very rough fleecy surface that will definitely remove a few layers of skin, if you fall/skid badly. As a result, most guys climb in shirts and long pants. But some don’t. No women have run away from the gym screaming, or demanded to have a shirt policy. Dress code never even made it onto the list of things I want from a gym. 

Lena chita wrote:

1. As others have pointed out, women in sport bras are not topless. Wear a tank top, if you hate a T-shirt. 

2. there are lots of gyms (climbing, as well as general fitness) that do not allow women to work out in sport bras, requiring a shirt that covers midriff and shoulders. Utah and Bible Belt are most common places for such rules. A friend of mine had a confrontation about it a few years ago. The large-chain fitness gym where she was working out had a promotional poster on the wall with a girl on a treadmill wearing a sports bra, but my friend was told she couldn’t work out in a sports bra. When she pointed out the poster, the gym’s solution was to take down the poster. She quit that gym. If you are so upset about having to wear a shirt, you, too, have an option of quitting.

3. I’m most surprised by the number of people who think these kinds of rules are made by women/for women. They most definitely aren’t.

4. Ultimately, it is up to individual business owners. Couple gyms in the area allow shirts off, others don’t. I started climbing in a non-air-conditioned gym where almost everyone climbed shirtless in summer. Then a new owner instituted a shirt-on policy. People grumbled, but had no other choice in a gym at the time, so they complied.
The gym where I climb now has no shirt-on policy. But it is somewhat-air-conditioned. And the mats are very rough fleecy surface that will definitely remove a few layers of skin, if you fall/skid badly. As a result, most guys climb in shirts and long pants. But some don’t. No women have run away from the gym screaming, or demanded to have a shirt policy. Dress code never even made it onto the list of things I want from a gym.

I think what we are seeing is the super-topofication of the Proj. 

All the old kooks from Cali constantly need something to be outraged about. 

And, the dude looking at the tights with a pouch has been saving that for over 2 years!

3. I’m most surprised by the number of people who think these kinds of rules are made by women/for women. They most definitely aren’t.

I don’t claim to know anything about gym culture, but I have seen some distinct trends in American society.

Lena, you claim to know about the way gym owners decide to make the rules. A rule like this is ordinarily the product of complaints from customers. Do you think men complain to gym owners about shirtless males as often as women do? Do you know a man who would complain about it?

If the rule is definitely not made by women for women, you’re effectively saying men make those kinds of rules for men. What do you see as the reason behind it?

Marc801 C wrote:

…in, direct… not “indirect”, which makes no sense.

Ok, Mr Pedantic Pants, shouldn’t it be “in directly,” then?

Kevin Worrall wrote:

Because, in spite of feminist claims that they want equal treatment for all, across society, they feel entitled to exclusively decide what kind of language and behavior is appropriate and allowable for men.

Think of the t shirt you have to wear in the gym as a burka. And be careful what you name that route.

Is this satire? I honestly can’t tell anymore. 

Kevin Worrall wrote:

Do you think men complain to gym owners about shirtless males as often as women do? Do you know a man who would complain about it?

You must not have wholly read page one.

ken gibson wrote:

I think what we are seeing is the super-topofication of the Proj. 

All the old kooks from Cali constantly need something to be outraged about. 

And, the dude looking at the tights with a pouch has been saving that for over 2 years!

We all lived in underwear in 2020 but in my house it was just boring sweatpants and boxers. If only I knew I could have stepped up my game with form-fitting dick-pouch tights! I wish I could have quarantined with Kevin Worrall! 

I saw a dude at the gym a few weeks ago wearing tight short shorts that were a bit over the top small, I immediately thought of this song-

Hson P wrote:

Ok, Mr Pedantic Pants, shouldn’t it be “in directly,” then?

Technically, yes, but it's a nod to those who insist on saying "condies" and other abominations. Personally I can't stand the term at all now. Yes, it's useful in sport climbing when someone is working a route and falling/resting repeatedly and they decide to clip into a bolt. But now people use it to mean all sorts of things related to belaying, lowering, etc.

Lena chita wrote:

1. As others have pointed out, women in sport bras are not topless. Wear a tank top, if you hate a T-shirt.

Just this. If even a tank top made of the super-fast drying "active wear" fabric is preventing a person from sending, they should probably meditate or something, because it's not actually the conditions or whatever that are in the way. World cup athletes are required to wear shirts (for the entrant number) while onsighting the hardest gym routes in the world. So why can't the OP handle a super-light shirt?

I totally get not wanting to wear a shirt while running or biking or something. Nipple chafing is real, and it does not discriminate by gender.

But gym climbing ain't sustained cardio.

This thread is boring. 

You just need to get creative.

Kevin Worrall wrote:

I don’t claim to know anything about gym culture, but I have seen some distinct trends in American society.

Lena, you claim to know about the way gym owners decide to make the rules. A rule like this is ordinarily the product of complaints from customers. Do you think men complain to gym owners about shirtless males as often as women do? Do you know a man who would complain about it?

If the rule is definitely not made by women for women, you’re effectively saying men make those kinds of rules for men. What do you see as the reason behind it?

While you are right, I don’t know exactly how each individual gym makes these decisions, so I can’t exclude the possibility that someone somewhere had complained, I believe that policies like these are made by gym owners without the customer complaints, based on their own perception of proper attire/hygiene, etc. 

In my experience customer complaints in any direction, on any subject, have very little effect on gym policies. But in 15+ years of climbing in various gyms, and through countless interactions with many female climbers, the men’s attire has not once been brought up as problematic.

In the example I used earlier, in my first gym where shirtless climbing WAS allowed, and part of the norm, the policy change came with the change of ownership, and, in this particular case, I was close enough to the new owner to know that it was his personal view, and not anyone’s complaint. He was uncomfortable with shirtless guys, and expressed the opinion that guys shouldn’t be taking their shirts off in the gym, because it was unhygienic. Once he was in charge— he made the change. 

Kevin Worrall wrote:

I don’t claim to know anything about gym culture, but I have seen some distinct trends in American society.

Lena, you claim to know about the way gym owners decide to make the rules. A rule like this is ordinarily the product of complaints from customers. Do you think men complain to gym owners about shirtless males as often as women do? Do you know a man who would complain about it?

If the rule is definitely not made by women for women, you’re effectively saying men make those kinds of rules for men. What do you see as the reason behind it?

One of the gyms I used to work at had the rule about shirts being mandatory. Said rule was made by men, and it was made because of other men. The reason for the rule was because the men who made this rule didn't want the gym to be full of a bunch of topless guys all peacocking and "subtlely" trying to out alpha male one another; they didn't want to deal with the issues that they anticipated would arise if the gym environment facilitated allowing bro culture to run amok.

"Bro culture amuck", sounds like an average day at the average gym.

…allowing bro culture to run amuck.

Which user group would be offended by that?

It’s “amok” btw

In my experience, the phrase “bro culture” is typically used by women and male feminists in a condescending way, as if male camaraderie is a millennial version of “the patriarchy”

I just want to know what level of ocd/germaphobia one has to have to think a shirt creates a more hygienic facility than no shirt? I'm a huge hater of seeing idiots with their shirt off in gyms, guy or girl, but there's zero consideration of hygiene in the equation. If hygiene was a factor at all, everyone should have to wear long sleeves and long pants to make any sense at all. 

Kevin Worrall wrote:

Which user group would be offended by that?

It’s “amok” btw

In my experience, the phrase “bro culture” is typically used by women and male feminists in a condescending way, as if male camaraderie is a millennial version of “the patriarchy”

Don't know who would be offended by that, but it was something that TPTB, all men, wanted to minimize as much as possible.

Spelling error fixed.

M M wrote:

"Bro culture amuck", sounds like an average day at the average gym.

Maybe...

Having gone to many gyms, and being a regular/semi-regular at 7 of my local gyms I can say that it can vary significantly depending on when you go, and who happens to be there at the time...

I remember many years ago first stepping into the gym that would become my home gym, anticipating a total sausage fest but being pleasantly surprised to see a near 50/50 gender balance among the patrons who were in to climb that evening.