Coconino NF seeking input on outfitter and guide proposals in Mount Elden/ Dry Lake Hills area.

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/NEWS-RELEASE--Coconino-NF-seeking-input-on-outfitter-and-guide-proposals-in-Mount-Elden--Dry-Lake-Hills-area.html?soid=1132418723099&aid=zP2xQHvesSc

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz., Dec. 16, 2022 — The Coconino National Forest is seeking public input on outfitter and guide proposals that would operate both in the Mount Elden/ Dry Lake Hills (MEDL) area and in the Flagstaff Ranger District (FRD).

The FRD is considering issuing a total of seven special use permits to various outfitters through the FRD District Prospectus for Outfitter and Guiding Services.

Should the permits be approved, these outfitters would allow for guided hiking, biking, motorized tours and rock climbing in the MEDL area. These activities would also occur on forest roads, trails and trailheads throughout the FRD – all of which are open to the public. 

“Outfitter and guided experiences can play an important role in providing safe and educational outdoor experience for forest visitors,” said Pat McGervey, District Recreation Staff. “We are excited for the opportunity to provide these experiences to connect visitors with their public lands.”

This process began with the Recreation Special Use Management Plan, which was developed in 2015 and finalized in 2018. This plan is used to identify the process and threshold for recreation activities across the FRD and is the basis for this analysis process.  

Outfitter proposals were accepted during the winter of 2020. These proposals are being brought forward to meet public need for outfitter/ guide services on the FRD, as indicated in the Coconino NF Land and Resource Management Plan. 

For more information regarding the FRD Prospectus for the Outfitter and Guide Services project scoping process please visit the Coconino NF’s website.

Please send any comments you have via email to: comments-southwestern-coconino@usda.gov or via postal mail to Attn: Paul Dawson, Flagstaff Ranger District, 5075 N. Highway 89 Flagstaff, AZ 86004. Include Flagstaff Outfitter and Guide Project in your comment. Input would be most useful by Jan. 15, 2023

For additional information, please contact Paul Dawson, Recreation Special Use Permit Administrator, at paul.dawson@usda.gov or 928-606-0560.

If you have time, I ask that you input 'NO' to this proposal.  Thanks,

Steve

mcarizona wrote:

If you have time, I ask that you input 'NO' to this proposal.  Thanks,

Steve

An honest question... why?

Thank you Mike,   here's my letter:

I am writing to ask that you oppose the proposal to allow guiding of hiking, cycling, motorized tours and rock climbing in the Mount Elden-Dry Lake Hills and other areas near Flagstaff.

I already feel a loss my, our privileges on the San Francisco Peaks due to the Arizona Snow Bowl.  When I am winter hiking, I have been headed off by snow mobiles, and shouted at by employees that say I am trespassing (on my national forest!).  I complained to the LEO at the Forest service office and there have been no results -in fact, I have lost more freedom on the mountain these last 5 years.

The permit system will eventually lead to the guide services feeling a privilege and a right to ‘own’ the area, just have we have let the Snowbowl do.  Please oppose the guide service.

mcarizona wrote:

Thank you Mike,   here's my letter:

I am writing to ask that you oppose the proposal to allow guiding of hiking, cycling, motorized tours and rock climbing in the Mount Elden-Dry Lake Hills and other areas near Flagstaff.

I already feel a loss my, our privileges on the San Francisco Peaks due to the Arizona Snow Bowl.  When I am winter hiking, I have been headed off by snow mobiles, and shouted at by employees that say I am trespassing (on my national forest!).  I complained to the LEO at the Forest service office and there have been no results -in fact, I have lost more freedom on the mountain these last 5 years.

The permit system will eventually lead to the guide services feeling a privilege and a right to ‘own’ the area, just have we have let the Snowbowl do.  Please oppose the guide service.

For everyone's awarenesses, there is only one (1) proposed permit holder for rock climbing on Flagstaff Ranger District based upon this proposal. Beta Bouldering for up to 500 user days, maximum group size of 10. I would hardly consider that any reason for them to consider that they "own" the area(s) that they would operate in as they would still be the minority in the much larger number of users that visit Flagstaff climbing areas. I have my gripes with only one guide service being able to provide Rock Climbing, Bird Watching, and Motorized Tours; but I am in favor of a few (not too many) services providing guided experiences to the public to help educate them about out public lands, LNT (How not to burn down Flagstaff for instance - fires aren't needed!), and increase the general public's knowledge of the natural world. 

As for Snowbowl example above, I encourage everyone to please become more acquainted with how businesses operate on Public Lands. From mining operations, to ski resorts, etc. I am not trying to call anyone out here, but the statement above shows a lack of knowledge of the system, which is way too common. This is why the Access Fund is so incredibly important along with having a base-level of understanding of how the system is set up and how "Public Lands" in the United States are a very fickle resource. Do we all have the time to actually learn about this stuff, no! Is this why many of us are unhappy with results "outside of our control?" Yes!  

~Ironically, when people take a guided experience, they may actually have more working knowledge of public lands and how the system is set up so that they can actually do something about it instead of simply try file complaints which overburdens the NF office~

(mcarizona - I do not know the whole story of your interaction with Snowbowl, but am assuming that the ski-patroller knew the area boundary and you had crossed into it. Furthermore, I am sorry that you have had poor experiences with guide services in the past that act like they own the area. I would deem that highly unprofessional. There have also been many instances where I feel that I have lost freedoms on "Public Lands" so your position is not unfounded.)

mcarizona wrote:

Thank you Mike,   here's my letter:

I am writing to ask that you oppose the proposal to allow guiding of hiking, cycling, motorized tours and rock climbing in the Mount Elden-Dry Lake Hills and other areas near Flagstaff.

I already feel a loss my, our privileges on the San Francisco Peaks due to the Arizona Snow Bowl.  When I am winter hiking, I have been headed off by snow mobiles, and shouted at by employees that say I am trespassing (on my national forest!).  I complained to the LEO at the Forest service office and there have been no results -in fact, I have lost more freedom on the mountain these last 5 years.

The permit system will eventually lead to the guide services feeling a privilege and a right to ‘own’ the area, just have we have let the Snowbowl do.  Please oppose the guide service.

Gotta love the typical crusty Flag locals... constantly pushing for this bullshit locals only ideal.