Edge protection; static vs dynamic rope

Hello, i've been climbing TRS for a bit now and i have some concerns about edge protection.

Usually, i set up a TR anchor on a tree using some tubular webbing (about 50ft) and i have 40m mammut dynamic rope that i use to climb with. Every time i set up an anchor i make double sure that my rope is not rubbing on any rocks directly while there is tension on the rope, i do this by wrapping pieces of hose (like a garden hose cut into 1ft sections) around the rope so the rope isn't touching the edge at all. When i attach to the rope, if i feel any rubbing on a rock, i reset everything. my biggest fear is for the rope to get cut on a sharp edge. This has caused me to give up on a lot of really cool routes.

When i first started learning about climbing i was told to buy static rope, but i bought dynamic rope by accident and just went with it. Now i have some extra cash and i want to get some static rope. My question is this; is there a big benefit when climbing with static rope as far as sharp edges and rope rub compared to dynamic rope? are my fears based in reality? I see some top ropers just tie a figure 8 around a tree and go climbing without any concern of the rope rubbing against rocks.

What do you all do when it comes to sharp edges and the rope rubbing on rocks?

Petzl makes a rope protector you could use.

If possible you should rebelay, tie off, to a b of lt or piece of gear below the sharp edge. You probably want to use a clove or alpine butterfly so the knot is easy to untie.

I TRS with a 10mm Sterling Work Pro (static).  It has a polyester sheath which resists abrasion better than the typical nylon sheath.

Lots of people solo TR on two ropes, either clipping into loops on, or running a second device up the second strand. That gives a whole lot of protection re. sharp edges. I don't pad the edge unless I feel/see something sharp. But I also rig my primary device so there's virtually zero slack. The people who trail their device below them on a short sling are taking harder falls each time than my set-up, and I'd expect a higher tendency to rope damage in that situation.

climber pat wrote:

Petzl makes a rope protector you could use.

If possible you should rebelay, tie off, to a b of lt or piece of gear below the sharp edge. You probably want to use a clove or alpine butterfly so the knot is easy to untie.

The rebelay is the right idea if possible. Using the garden hose is a great idea. I have some old jeans that I sewed some velcro in to function the same.

Static line is also a significantly better option than dynamic. I use BD 10mm static and after a lot of TR and TRS abuse it shows no sheath damage. Most static lines will work well. It gives me a massive feeling of security from abrasion relative to a dynamic rope. Definitely recommend.

thank you for all the info! running the two ropes may be my best bet, i might as well if i'm going to be getting a static rope anyways.

So, i think my fear of sharp edges is the biggest issue. lets say i have my rope hanging over a round and mostly flat rock, i have tension on my rope and the rope is rubbing against this flat rock. how much wear will my rope see on something like that? i know that may be a ridiculous question as there are a ton of variables, but in general, is that something i need to worry about?

at one place i climb, there are some great routes, but tree top rope anchors are far away, i worry about the rope being out so far. then there are a few ledges the rope is rubbing against, nothing razor blade sharp. but when i tug on my rope when it there is tension, i feel the rope scraping against something. at that point i will usually give up and find something else to climb. but i wonder if i don't have to be so cautious about something like that, i figured static rope would make me feel better about it at least.

I don't want to tell you sharp edges aren't a problem, but it sounds like you might either be being overly paranoid, or have some points of confusion, but it's hard to tell without seeing your setups. You should try to find some more experienced climbers who can show you what is and is not a concern. (You also probably need more webbing to reach the trees at Ragged Mtn.) You could try to connect with either the AMC or Connecticut Climbers and Mountaineers. I think they both still run regular toprope evenings during the warmer months.

Jeffrey Sandone wrote:

thank you for all the info! running the two ropes may be my best bet, i might as well if i'm going to be getting a static rope anyways.

So, i think my fear of sharp edges is the biggest issue. lets say i have my rope hanging over a round and mostly flat rock, i have tension on my rope and the rope is rubbing against this flat rock. how much wear will my rope see on something like that? i know that may be a ridiculous question as there are a ton of variables, but in general, is that something i need to worry about?

at one place i climb, there are some great routes, but tree top rope anchors are far away, i worry about the rope being out so far. then there are a few ledges the rope is rubbing against, nothing razor blade sharp. but when i tug on my rope when it there is tension, i feel the rope scraping against something. at that point i will usually give up and find something else to climb. but i wonder if i don't have to be so cautious about something like that, i figured static rope would make me feel better about it at least.

Abrasion isn’t that big an issue on flat rounded rock unless it’s being repeatedly loaded, or there’s a knot right where it rubs. If I was setting up a tr for a big group to be on all day, I might pad those spots, but otherwise not. For TRS I tend more toward rebelays than padding.

When you get static rope, you might get more than you need. I much prefer using static rope to build/extend anchors than webbing/cord.  

Don't overthink this.  Dynamic for TRS is perfectly fine.  If the rope needs to run over a sharp edge because you can't extend the anchor far enough, adding a bit of padding is smart.  Placing a few sections of tubular nylon sheath on the rope is the easiest solution -- more convenient and cheaper than garden hose.

Why is TRS in beginning climbers section?

A length of nylon reinforced tubing purchased at H Depot.  Tie a keeper loop to one end, thread it on your line, use another cord loop to make a small prussik on the line to hold it in the position you want.  Another trick is to, below the sharp edge, place a solid piece (or pieces) of gear, make a figure eight knot on a bite of the rope and clip the knot's loop into the piece, pulling up enough slack to get the section of rope above that is contacting the  sharp edge slightly loose and unweighted.  

Just for clarity, are you Top Rope Soloing (TRS) or Top Roping (TR)?  If it is TRS then I think you are posting in the wrong Forum thread (TRS is not a good idea for beginner climbers).

Whoever told you to buy a static rope when you first started climbing was either talking about using rope to build top rope anchors or was wrong when they told you to buy a static rope.  You shouldn't use a static rope when climbing outdoors unless it is for building the anchor or it is for hauling on a bigwall.  

I started climbing outdoors during the beginning of Covid. And since I was unsure about partners I did mostly TRS for a while. I did a ton of research and then had everything super redundant. At one point I was running two devices on one rope and clipping knots on a second. I was probably tying catastrophe knots under my devices as well. Anyways, TRS is for the well educated so do your research and you'll be ok. Make yourself feel safe and do not cut any corners.

Additionally, many people TRS on static. If it's set up with no slack or little slack, you never really fall. This is my go-to system for TRS.

Also also, there are occasions where I TR with a static. Mostly where a fall low down is not ideal because of jagged rocks or something. The belay must be kept super tight and often I will tie myself or my belayer to an anchor to ensure no movement.

To the OP's last concern, try to double up your anchor rope. Run a double length static from the tree or whatever anchor point you are using. Once you are below the edges you are concerned about then tie the master point. Now your static is redundant to the master point. I then usually have one length of static hanging from the master point to actually climb on.

Jake woo wrote:

I started climbing outdoors during the beginning of Covid. And since I was unsure about partners I did mostly TRS for a while. I did a ton of research and then had everything super redundant. At one point I was running two devices on one rope and clipping knots on a second. I was probably tying catastrophe knots under my devices as well. Anyways, TRS is for the well educated so do your research and you'll be ok. Make yourself feel safe and do not cut any corners.

Additionally, many people TRS on static. If it's set up with no slack or little slack, you never really fall. This is my go-to system for TRS.

Also also, there are occasions where I TR with a static. Mostly where a fall low down is not ideal because of jagged rocks or something. The belay must be kept super tight and often I will tie myself or my belayer to an anchor to ensure no movement.

To the OP's last concern, try to double up your anchor rope. Run a double length static from the tree or whatever anchor point you are using. Once you are below the edges you are concerned about then tie the master point. Now your static is redundant to the master point. I then usually have one length of static hanging from the master point to actually climb on.

Sounds like you learned a good way to TRS.  Not many people are capable of learning how to do this on their own safely (especially newbies) so caution should be taken for those who try.  

I did a lot of LRS during Covid just to get out of the house.  

I use a Silent Partner for LRS and it has me spoiled.  I've tried the original grigri, grigri2 (sucks) and the clove hitch just to add to my arsenal of skills and the SP is just so much easier to use.

I'm curious what your TRS setup is.  I currently use a microtrax clipped to a chest harness as my primary with an ascender clipped backwards through the top hole as my backup below that.  Then I weight the rope with itself or something to help with easier feeding.

As for TRing with a static rope, it would be much better to NOT anchor the belayer.  If the climber falls that allowed movement by not anchoring them down will make for a softer catch.  

Stan Hampton wrote:

Sounds like you learned a good way to TRS.  Not many people are capable of learning how to do this on their own safely (especially newbies) so caution should be taken for those who try.  

I did a lot of LRS during Covid just to get out of the house.  

I use a Silent Partner for LRS and it has me spoiled.  I've tried the original grigri, grigri2 (sucks) and the clove hitch just to add to my arsenal of skills and the SP is just so much easier to use.

I'm curious what your TRS setup is.  I currently use a microtrax clipped to a chest harness as my primary with an ascender clipped backwards through the top hole as my backup below that.  Then I weight the rope with itself or something to help with easier feeding.

As for TRing with a static rope, it would be much better to NOT anchor the belayer.  If the climber falls that allowed movement by not anchoring them down will make for a softer catch.  

100% agreed on as much caution as possible. It is dangerous not knowing what you don't know.

I never did LRS. But my TRS is the same as yours. Microtrax to a chest harness on top. Nice and high and tight. Dragging an ascender via the top hole below. I have long since stopped being quadruple redundant bc you never get any climbing in.

Good point about not using an anchor. I think each situation varies. For my limited use cases, it's pretty much a no fall zone. So tying down the belayer, belaying with an assisted braking device (grigri, etc.), super-tight-no-slack belay, and a static makes it very unlikely for the climber to deck. It will be a hard catch and potentially dangerous if slack is allowed to develop. So need to very mindful.

Sorry for the thread tangent y'all. I appreciate honest, earnest, and non-argumentative discussions here, so thank you rockklimber for some thoughtful additions.

Jake woo wrote:

100% agreed on as much caution as possible. It is dangerous not knowing what you don't know.

I never did LRS. But my TRS is the same as yours. Microtrax to a chest harness on top. Nice and high and tight. Dragging an ascender via the top hole below. I have long since stopped being quadruple redundant bc you never get any climbing in.

Good point about not using an anchor. I think each situation varies. For my limited use cases, it's pretty much a no fall zone. So tying down the belayer, belaying with an assisted braking device (grigri, etc.), super-tight-no-slack belay, and a static makes it very unlikely for the climber to deck. It will be a hard catch and potentially dangerous if slack is allowed to develop. So need to very mindful.

Sorry for the thread tangent y'all. I appreciate honest, earnest, and non-argumentative discussions here, so thank you rockklimber for some thoughtful additions.

"it is dangerous not knowing what you don't know. "  Therein lies the danger eh?

LRS requires quite a few years of multipitch trad experience before you can do it "safely".  

I need to work on my chest harness.  I currently use just a 4ft sling crossed in the back and with two overhands on a bight in the ends centered on my chest.  I need to incorporate an elastic cord that keeps it a little tighter, but I have been lazy and took whatever I had at hand.

Quadruple redundant is good while you are learning.  Now that you have some experience under your belt you an better discern what is necessary.

What kind of toprope climb is pretty much a no fall zone?

Because it will be a hard catch is why I wouldn't use a static cord or anchor down the belayer.  Both will put unnecessary force on the anchor points, all gear and especially the climber and belayer.  

Thanks for listening and providing feedback.

Stan Hampton wrote:

I need to work on my chest harness.  I currently use just a 4ft sling crossed in the back and with two overhands on a bight in the ends centered on my chest.  I need to incorporate an elastic cord that keeps it a little tighter, but I have been lazy and took whatever I had at hand.

What kind of toprope climb is pretty much a no fall zone?

Because it will be a hard catch is why I wouldn't use a static cord or anchor down the belayer.  Both will put unnecessary force on the anchor points, all gear and especially the climber and belayer.  

I finally ponied up the $15 and bought the petzl Torse. It is just a piece of webbing, but it just makes it it so much easier to get exactly the right height. I did the double shoulder sling with a variety of knots and it was never perfect. Elastic with two tiny clips on each end, clipped to the carabiner/link on each side of microtrax, and the center of the elastic clipped back to the Torse. Makes for easy un/clipping when you need to take the trax off.

Any place with a sharp pile of nonuniform rocks/boulders at the base. It's certainly not life or death, but no one wants to fall even a few feet and get a spike into their backside. I've also done some drytooling in mini caves and if you blow the start you're gonna take a huge swing out and inevitably down along the rope arc. Every inch counts to keep your butt off the ground. This is for comfort, but also to help try to prevent crampons from getting caught on a ground object and putting force through your foot/ankle. So yeah, generally the climber is going to feel the belayer tugging them upwards, but it's all to keep them from scraping on the ground and this constant tension also ensures no slack. I find it useful for a few specific spots I know and it's an easy price to pay to climb and feel good about it. 99% of the time Im TR'g on dynamic rope like everybody else.