Pack Nerdom: Versatile Climbing/Skiing Packs under 1kg

This is a bit of an essay, so if you aren't a pack nerd I would stop reading now. Edited recently to include new pack suggestions, and a refined list of features. 

I'm looking for a versatile pack to replace a couple of other packs. I'm tired of owning so many bags and hoping to get 1 pack that is a blend of mountaineering/alpine climbing and ski touring/ski mountaineering. I'd also like it to be able to do triple duty as a day hiking pack or even overnight backpacking, although I have a HMG Southwest 3400 if I'm really just hiking. I have a Creek 50 as a dedicated cragging bag and a small 20L multipitch rock pack that I'm happy with. I had an Ortovox Haute Route for touring but sold it recently - too heavy, too specialized, too many pockets and straps. I currently use a second gen Alpha FL30 (expands to almost 40) for day trips in the alpine where I need more gear than my 20L pack carries, or if I'm ice climbing etc. Overall I love the Alpha FL, except for two dislikes:

1. The Alpha FL30 hipbelt is just webbing, so it is not the most comfortable for my body with just a t-shirt when loaded with more than 20lbs (winter layers act as padding, but in the summer the webbing digs into my side and pinches me a bit when hiking). This is only a big deal on long approaches or when I use this as a day hiking/quick overnight backpacking bag.
2. It kind of sucks for ski touring. No dedicated avy pocket is not a dealbreaker for me, but I find the way the small accessory pockets eat up internal volume near where the roll top extension collar starts makes the opening of the pack narrower and harder to access the avy gear, plus a waterproof design means any snow that enters the pack makes a puddle in the bottom. I can mitigate this with brushing the snow off, so really it is more that the pocket layout makes things harder to access. If the pockets are empty enough to be out of the way, they are not really functional, so you end up with just 1 big pocket (which is okay, but not my favourite). 

I'm open to keeping the Alpha FL30 for more fast and light climbing objectives and getting a second pack that is a bit bigger and more touring/skimo oriented, or if the new pack can replace the FL and be versatile enough, I'm happy with that. I don't think the pack I want really exists yet, but maybe you all know better! At the bottom Ive listed some packs that seem closest to my specs. Two packs I thought could be good but are not: Blue Ice FireCrest 38, Arc'Teryx Alpha SK 32. Both have horrible closures or other quirks and they're also a bit small (they pack small for their stated volume).

My core criteria for this pack are:

• Under 1kg ideally, MAX 1200g with compelling features (strippable to under 1kg still)
  
• EDIT: Dedicated avalanche pocket
• EDIT: Side zip access 
• EDIT: Around 30-40 litres
• Good closure to keep out weather - preference for roll top, but well designed flap or floating lid is fine. Zipper closure not desired. 
  • e.g. BlueIce Firecrest and Alpha Sk have quite bad flap design, greatly restricting packing volume
• Tapered design to facilitate good climbing and skiing
• Some compression options or ability to rig to ensure close to body fit 
• Rope carry
• Removable padding for hipbelt to improve comfort when loaded up
• Removable framesheet that is functional enough to transfer some load (willing to go a bit beyond 1kg if it carries really well) 
• STRIPPABLE components - as many of these features as possible I want to remove when not needed, the more the better (esp. lid, compression, hip padding)
• Included external helmet carry, or sufficient external rigging options to add aftermarket one
• Included external double ice axe carry, or sufficient external rigging options to add one
• At least one security/small items pocket (preferably two)
• Load lifters
• Available in Canada but willing to pay import duties if required

Nice to haves, but not totally essential:

• EDIT: moved avalanche pocket to core criteria
• EDIT: bumped size zip to core criteria
• Running vest style shoulder straps for load distribution and easy access to snacks/devices/water on the go
• Option to rig bungee to hold crampons and bulky gear outside (might compete with helmet carry but thats fine)
• Hydration port for summer would be nice
• No hard to use buckles or toggles that make glove use challenging

Contenders:

• Mountain Hardwear snoskiwoski (finnicky top closure? Side pocket is awesome)
• Black Diamond Cirque 35/45 (No running vest harness, the 22L vest version too small, unsure of loaded comfort)
• HMG Headwall 55L (no side zip access - not a total dealbreaker, but I like the quick access. Avy pocket could be big enough to fit a shell in which would be great)
• Blue Ice Kume 38L (a bit more ski oriented than I'd be hoping and less strippable but maybe an option)
• Ultimate Direction Fastpack 40 is close - no avy pocket though. Maybe a way to rig something secure with front mesh pocket?
• Mammut Trion Nordwand 38 (no avalanche pocket) - awesome pack, might replace my Alpha FL with it but not likely my dedicated ski mountaineering pack
• Mountain Equipment Tupilak 37+ (hard to get in Canada, expensive, no running vest harness, unsure of loaded comfort)
• Arc'Teryx Alpha AR 35 (had the older 55L and found it uncomfortable, maybe new 35 will be better, lacks running vest harness)
• Mountain Equipment Kaniq 33 (mixed feelings about zipper closures, no vest harness, a bit small, hard to get in Canada/expensive)

I'm curious to hear if folks have other packs they'd suggest. Also, if you have used the above packs in similar contexts to what I'm describing, what are your thoughts? 

EDIT - TL;DR - I'm looking for a DAY USE (option for fast and light occasional overnights but more single day stuff) ski mountaineering pack that incorporates some of the design principles/features more common on alpine climbing bags. Im looking for a dedicated avy pocket, a side zip, and a couple pockets for some basic organization, but otherwise a streamlined and light design.

What about this one? https://www.mountain-equipment.com/collections/packs/products/kaniq-33 

Looks to be about what you want and would be more ski friendly than the tupilak. 

Also these seem to fit the bill: https://us.blueice.com/products/firecrest-38-pack

I am debating between the two myself. I climb in Hyalite a lot and I really want an alpine pack with a dedicated avalanche pocket that can carry skis pretty comfortable. I use the HMG Prism right now.

After switching to cold cold world, I'm never going with any other pack brand again. I truly believe they're the best. It's handmade by a climber in NH in his home workshop. He's been running it for 20 years or so.

They fit all your criteria except for the dedicated avy pocket and side zip. But, their brain pocket is humongous and can definitely fit some avy gear, and you can also fashion stuff with the daisy chains. Also, side zips break -- no zipper is a plus imo. Especially when stuffing a pack. Also, their crampon straps compress and you can definitely use those to carry a probe and shovel handle --- if not carrying crampons.

The shoulder straps are nice and wide but don't have pockets. You could fashion something though with the daisy chain system they have setup. 

It's fully strippable, and able to carry skis, splitboard, snowshoes, anything. Has crampon straps too. It also has ski slots to make carrying skis easier. 

The fabric is 500D cordura. It'll last a decade of heavy use, and it's durable enough to haul. 

Randy also does customizations for a very reasonable price. It can be made to your torso length if it doesn't fit the standard size, and you can pick and choose hipbelts and other stuff.

With your criteria, I recommend getting a Valdez with ice tool slots rather than ice axe loops, a padded hipbelt rather than webbing, and a top rope strap. That's right at 40L not counting the brain, which is large enough to fit a nalgene or two. It should come in right at 1 kg. It's also really affordable, even with shipping to Canada. 

http://www.coldcoldworldpacks.com/valdez.html

I loved my ME Tupilak. I used the 45+ version for everything: ski touring; multi day volcano trips; multipitch and cragging; winter alpine routes; and even four-day hitches working as a ranger. For climbing, it worked super well. I pretty much never noticed it on my back, even when it got steep. Super durable and waterproof too. It isn’t really a dedicated ski bag and it shows but it was no problem to carry skis on it.

Yeah the price is high but so is the quality.

As a very newbie backcountry skier/alpinist, I also havent been able to reconcile the avy gear/pocket issue yet either. I'm told you absolutely want avy gear inside (if you carry it) so it can't fall off, which makes sense. I also haven't seen too many (any??) avy gear bags that seem like they are designed to climb technical ice. I get that you can often avoid avy terrain while climbing, or if there is an avalanche and you're mid pitch you're kinda SOL anyways, but I guess I'm stuck because a few of my usual haunts like Huntington Ravine you need to cross avy terrain to get to the climb. Or what about bigger mountain objectives where you are inevitably in and out of avy terrain even if the actual climbing is not. Looking for all insight!

I've been looking at the Greogry Targhee series, Osprey Soelden, and Blue Ice Kume. That Mtn Eqpt Kaniq looks like a contender too.

I'm all for CCW except he doesn't like avy pockets. I've owned a large Chaos for years and it's my go to bag half the time for cragging or overnights, but I think I want the avy pocket. I'm looking to be persuaded otherwise. Thanks!

Gabe: thank you for pointing out the Kaniq! I have not seen that before and will look into it a bit more. At first glance it seems promising, if just a bit small perhaps. I would discourage you from the Firecrest 38. I wrote above that the pack suffers from an awkward closure system, which does not allow it to carry too much, and the top lid pocket (like the cirque) is useless when the pack is full. In many other respect the firecrest 38 is awesome - only other gripe is that the avalanche sleeve is small for shovel blade. I have a BCA RS EXT (medium/average blade) and it would snag badly coming out, making the pocket kind of useless imo. Smaller blades (20-23cm across) seemed to fare better, but still would snag on occasion. If I place the blade in such a way that it doesn't snag (end of blade up, handle side down) it was a bit better but not confidence inspiring. 

Arnav: thank you for turning me on to Cold Cold World. I will look into that some more! 

Brendan: thanks for your thoughts. I would be open to the Tupilak 45+ too! Glad to hear you back up the quality. Any idea where to buy these in North America (e.g. US site that ships to Canada perhaps)? It looks like REI used to sell them but no longer. 

Anyone used the Mammut Trion Nordwand 38? Very curious to hear a mini review on it. Cheers! 

One pack that I got last year that I really like for this purpose is the Mountain Hardwear Snowskiwoski 40. It's about 2.5 lbs, but you could probably strip a few of the features you don't want to get closer to that 1kg weight. It's a great pack that really has some nice climbing features, but has the avy tool pocket. 

https://www.mountainhardwear.com/p/snoskiwoski-40-pack-1945771.html

Consider Mountain Hardwear's Snoskiwoski 40, seems to fit a lot of your requirements. I've been happy with my MH packs.

You've basically described the reason I started building my own packs under the company name Otter Body Threadworks. This one is: 35+L, internal avalanche pocket, external ice tool carry, option for diagonal or a-frame ski carry. Total weight about 1200g before removing any components. Roll-top closure; tri-fold removable closed cell foam frame-sheet; removable compression straps; removable padded waist belt; load lifters; internal zippered pocket; full-length #10 water-resistant side zipper; front daisy chains for bungee attachment (also can attach a third-party helmet holder); loops to attach a brain; hydration port on the shoulder, doubles as a port for a shoulder mic; avalanche pocket is sized to fit a full-size shovel blade and 320cm probe; buckles can be either "g-hook" style (my preference) or side release. I've made a similar pack in a 45+L version.

Short list of what I (and others) have worn it on;

- Ham and Eggs guided ascent

- Grand Teton ski descent

- FA attempt in the Himalaya

- full seasons of ice/ski guiding in Montana and the Tetons

- climb-to-ski routes in Hyalite Canyon and elsewhere

Also check out the Apocalypse Equipment packs. Owner is a mountain guide as well and makes a damn good product.

Jake woo wrote:

As a very newbie backcountry skier/alpinist, I also havent been able to reconcile the avy gear/pocket issue yet either. I'm told you absolutely want avy gear inside (if you carry it) so it can't fall off, which makes sense. I also haven't seen too many (any??) avy gear bags that seem like they are designed to climb technical ice. I get that you can often avoid avy terrain while climbing, or if there is an avalanche and you're mid pitch you're kinda SOL anyways, but I guess I'm stuck because a few of my usual haunts like Huntington Ravine you need to cross avy terrain to get to the climb. Or what about bigger mountain objectives where you are inevitably in and out of avy terrain even if the actual climbing is not. Looking for all insight!

I've been looking at the Greogry Targhee series, Osprey Soelden, and Blue Ice Kume. That Mtn Eqpt Kaniq looks like a contender too.

I'm all for CCW except he doesn't like avy pockets. I've owned a large Chaos for years and it's my go to bag half the time for cragging or overnights, but I think I want the avy pocket. I'm looking to be persuaded otherwise. Thanks!

+1 for the Osprey Soelden. I got the 42 as a dedicated tourer (I like lots of room for first aid, extra layers, food, drinks, etc), but liked that it has a flap under the lid so it can still be closed up well if you take the brain off. I've used it this summer a bunch as a trad pack when I'm taking my rack, harness, shoes, helmet, and drape the rope. Not exactly purpose built for that, but does the job well. It also did great for climbing couloirs in the spring. Held crampons, BSP, all my gear, skis with boots attached, and an ice axe for the approach. 

OP, maybe also check out the Deuter Freerider Pro 34+. Interesting expansion design, and fairly light I think (the Soelden isn't especially light I believe). Only 1 ice tool attachment though. I was between those two and went with the Soelden for the extra room, easier back panel access, and seems more durable, but I don't care much about weight.

Matt, saw your pack on the sewing post, super neat! Would you consider making an extra and selling it? I'd be interested...

Also Erik, I'm located in Canada too and really want to get my hands on a Tupilak, but the conversion rate + shipping to Canada is just too much... Best idea I can think of is to buy it from a EU website and ship to a US boarder store (much cheaper than Canadian customs + brokage fee), then drive down and pick it up

Jake woo wrote:

As a very newbie backcountry skier/alpinist, I also havent been able to reconcile the avy gear/pocket issue yet either. I'm told you absolutely want avy gear inside (if you carry it) so it can't fall off, which makes sense. I also haven't seen too many (any??) avy gear bags that seem like they are designed to climb technical ice. I get that you can often avoid avy terrain while climbing, or if there is an avalanche and you're mid pitch you're kinda SOL anyways, but I guess I'm stuck because a few of my usual haunts like Huntington Ravine you need to cross avy terrain to get to the climb. Or what about bigger mountain objectives where you are inevitably in and out of avy terrain even if the actual climbing is not. Looking for all insight!

I've been looking at the Greogry Targhee series, Osprey Soelden, and Blue Ice Kume. That Mtn Eqpt Kaniq looks like a contender too.

I'm all for CCW except he doesn't like avy pockets. I've owned a large Chaos for years and it's my go to bag half the time for cragging or overnights, but I think I want the avy pocket. I'm looking to be persuaded otherwise. Thanks!

Usually leave avy gear at the base of the route, or just bring beacons. If it's interspersed and prolonged then yeah, no choice but to bring everything. Avy pocket is a personal preference but not a huge deal unless you ski in a lot of risky terrain. With maritime snow in my area, it's not something I prioritize. It is really good to fly out somewhere with different snow just to get a feel for how it behaves, rounding out your snow sense similarly to climbing on different types of rock and building your vocabulary of movement.

I'll sometimes carry a shovel blade outside of my pack during transport in low-risk terrain (like an overstuffed overnight pack, walking in boots), then put it inside while actually touring.

Good thread. I'm interested in a similar pack but it seems to be kind of a unicorn. I have a Cilogear 30L worksack and it checks a lot of the boxes. It so happens that I can shove my probe and shovel handle into side edges of the foam backpad "compartment", and then let the blade live free inside the pack. It's a hack but has worked well for 1 season so far. 

I recently stumbled onto this CAMP Be Safe avy tool organizer. 

https://skimo.co/camp-be-safe-pack

I have mixed feelings about this idea, from the standpoint of not wanting to slow down access to rescue gear, but it is a potential solution. At 270 grams it's a little heavy for what it's doing, but not awful. 

It seems like any of the typical simple "sewn tube" style packs would be totally sufficient for this.  For example, the BD Cirque, BD Speed 30/40, Blue Ice Warthog 45, Patagonia Ascensionist 35, Nordwand 38, AR35, and many others.  These are all right around 1 kg, simple, strippable, climb fine, and will carry skis in A-frame.  They don't have a separate pocket for avy tools (except the Cirque!), which is a big part of being low weight and efficiently using the volume.  For me, with a pack like this I probably use it without avy gear just as often (or more often) as with avy gear, so paying the cost/weight/feature penalty for that doesn't make a ton of sense.  YMMV.

I use a separate pack on days primarily focused on skiing.  I like the Deuter Freerider, but there are a million great touring packs out there too.

Justin S wrote:

Matt, saw your pack on the sewing post, super neat! Would you consider making an extra and selling it? I'd be interested...

You bet. Shoot me a pm.

Another +1 for the https://www.mountainhardwear.com/p/snoskiwoski-40-pack-1945771.html

If you can get one, https://www.apocalypse-equipment.com/ is pretty close to what you want as well

Patagonia Ascentionist 35 seems to fit the bill.  Rab Latok 38 also checks most of the boxes with the exception of a padded hip belt.  Maybe that could be customized somehow.  

The old Patagonia Descensionist 40 is pretty close to your desired pack. It is somewhat like the old Arc FL-40 with an avy pocket, padded hip belt, and a side access zip. Great for ski accessed alpine/winter climbing or any routes that require avy gear. Going by your list:

• Under 1kg (could go to 1200ish kg if dedicated avy pocket and other addons noted below are included) - the L/XL size is 1045g
• Around 35-40 litres 
• Good closure to keep out snow 
• Tapered design to facilitate good climbing and skiing
• Some compression options or ability to rig to ensure close to body fit 
• Rope strap (removeable ideally) - yes
• Included external double ice axe carry, or sufficient external rigging options to add one - yes
• At least one security/small items pocket (preferably two) -
• Load lifters
• Dedicated avalanche pocket (this would be really, really nice, but no pack I've found meets the above with dedicated avy pocket)

• Option to rig bungee to hold crampons and bulky gear outside (might compete with helmet carry but thats fine)
• Hydration port for summer would be nice
• Side zip access would be nice and I would push a bit past 1kg if this is included. 
• No hard to use buckles or toggles that make glove use challenging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voUi8vCImTw

Also perhaps consider the Exped Serac 45 - simple tube but with some small daisy chains, small front pocket like the Arc FL series, and a side zip. 

Thanks for all the replies so far - this has given me lots to look into!

Please, keep the suggestions coming! 

someone posted a very similar question on the tgr forums (thread is called '35-45 L touring pack under 1 KG - does it exist'). 

i have the kume 38 and really love it for ski mountaineering and touring but dont ice climb. it probably has some bells and whistles other people would find superfluous though (skimo style carry, pocket separator for crampons, funky rope carry). two other packs not mentioned are the cilao ( skiuphill.ca/collections/ba…) and samaya ( climbonequipment.com/produc…;currency=CAD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyuXL4Mia-wIVCQutBh3zXQ1OEAQYAiABEgI9XPD_BwE) that are both available here in canada but i have no experience with them.