Help with On Demand Printing for a Small Guidebook

I have finished the final edit for my little guidebook and I was hoping to get some advice about On Demand printing.  I don't fully understand the process and I am also hoping to get some recommendations on a business to go with.  I have found Lulu, IngramSpark, Bookbaby etc..  but I don't know how they work.  Do you buy a bunch of printed books up front and then when people want to buy one they ship it to the purchaser or do you just publish the book and then they sell them individually for a cut of each book?  Are there any pitfalls to look out for with On Demand? If my first senario is correct it seem that I may end up with a bunch of extra books if they don't sell as well as anticipated.  I have the ability to do a short print run on my own to sell locally in shops so I do not need to worry about that cost/feature. I would also like to do an eBook as well.   

As a bump and as a side note..... I fully anticipate losing money on this guidebook.  Money and fame are not my motives. 

If you are not looking for fame or fortune, I am wondering why you are looking to publish your guidebook in physical form. My climbing partner has created  mini guides for several climbing areas which he publishes in PDF format. He provides anyone interested with a Dropbox link to download them. It is up to the user whether to keep it in electronic form or print it out. No money changes hands. His investment is limited to his time and effort. Revisions can be distributed easily and in a timely fashion, as development is progressing steadily in these areas. His guidebooks might have a wider audience if they were available commercially but limited distribution may not be a bad thing for cliffs in remote areas with extremely limited rescue services.

Just something to think about …

Mike Grainger wrote:

If you are not looking for fame or fortune, I am wondering why you are looking to publish your guidebook in physical form. My climbing partner has created  mini guides for several climbing areas which he publishes in PDF format. He provides anyone interested with a Dropbox link to download them. It is up to the user whether to keep it in electronic form or print it out. No money changes hands. His investment is limited to his time and effort. Revisions can be distributed easily and in a timely fashion, as development is progressing steadily in these areas. His guidebooks might have a wider audience if they were available commercially but limited distribution may not be a bad thing for cliffs in remote areas with extremely limited rescue services.

Just something to think about …

I mean he might not be looking for a fortune, but a little money might help recuperate some of the costs involved with creating a guide book. Can’t imagine the amount of hours that go into one.

You don’t have to pay anything upfront for Amazon on demand publishing. Amazon sucks but it is cheap. You can give people the optio for for a digital version but also you can publish a print version cheap  

Thanks for being a guidebook author! What area is it? What Tobias said is the best option despite how much I dislike Amazon. A member of my family has written several childrens books and uses that service.

Have you looked into what it would cost at Minuteman / Kinkos? If it's a local guidebook that you'd like to sell at the gym or in person that could be the best way. If you have the dims and page count, maybe call a few places for quotes? 

Here's a guidebook I've done using Lulu: https://www.lulu.com/shop/benjamin-crowell/climbing-routes-at-tahquitz/paperback/product-1965vymv.html?page=1&pageSize=4

Kyran Keisling wrote:

 I have found Lulu, IngramSpark, Bookbaby etc..  but I don't know how they work.  Do you buy a bunch of printed books up front and then when people want to buy one they ship it to the purchaser or do you just publish the book and then they sell them individually for a cut of each book?

There are a lot of different POD companies, and each has their own setup. A single POD company may offer more than one method. What I'm currently doing with Lulu is to let people buy individual copies from them, and I set my royalty to zero, which keeps the price low and makes me not have to go through the process of doing the income tax on a trivial amount of income. With Lulu's setup, they let you choose whether or not to pay for an ISBN. I don't. If you want to sell the book on Amazon, you need an ISBN. I would definitely not recommend keeping a closet full of books and fulfilling orders yourself. I did that 20 years ago with a different book, and it was a lot of work.

Are there any pitfalls to look out for with On Demand? If my first senario is correct it seem that I may end up with a bunch of extra books if they don't sell as well as anticipated.  I have the ability to do a short print run on my own to sell locally in shops so I do not need to worry about that cost/feature. I would also like to do an eBook as well.   

I would avoid any company that requires you to pay them any money up front.

My experience with Lulu has been that they're mostly OK. I've been doing business with them for almost 20 years now, I guess. They have no tech support at all, so if you have a problem, you either need to figure it out yourself, google, or whatever. They used to have a useful user's forum, and that may still exist, I dunno. There are some specific technical hassles that I used to have with them that I'm now no longer experiencing. Because of some of the hassles with them, I did periodically look around for other POD companies over the years, but I never found anyone that looked any better and satisfied my requirements (such as being able to produce the physical dimensions I was using).

Ebooks are a mess, if you mean the formats that work on handheld devices like Kindle. The formats aren't very good for anything but printed words. For an illustrated book it's completely impractical. You don't know anything about the screen size that it will be displayed on.

If you just mean making a pdf available, then sure: github.com/bcrowell/tahquitz

Mike Grainger wrote:

If you are not looking for fame or fortune, I am wondering why you are looking to publish your guidebook in physical form.

Personally, I prefer printed guidebooks for a lot of reasons. I don't want to be whipping out a cell phone while on a route and then dropping it on my partner's head. Scrolling around on a phone's screen to look at a topo is like peeking through a keyhole.

 My climbing partner has created  mini guides for several climbing areas which he publishes in PDF format. He provides anyone interested with a Dropbox link to download them. It is up to the user whether to keep it in electronic form or print it out.

A printed, bound book is just the most convenient format for a lot of purposes.

petzl logic wrote:

Have you looked into what it would cost at Minuteman / Kinkos? If it's a local guidebook that you'd like to sell at the gym or in person that could be the best way. If you have the dims and page count, maybe call a few places for quotes? 

I've done that, back in the 20th century. It was a total hassle. There's no reason to mess with that kind of setup today.

Welp, they are certainly not going to beat the cost of that Lulu (Tahquitz) book. Do they get you bad on shipping?

petzl logic wrote:

Welp, they are certainly not going to beat the cost of that Lulu (Tahquitz) book. Do they get you bad on shipping?

It's not too bad if you use the cheapest shipping option or order multiple copies at once.

Mike Grainger wrote:

If you are not looking for fame or fortune, I am wondering why you are looking to publish your guidebook in physical form. My climbing partner has created  mini guides for several climbing areas which he publishes in PDF format. He provides anyone interested with a Dropbox link to download them. It is up to the user whether to keep it in electronic form or print it out. No money changes hands. His investment is limited to his time and effort. Revisions can be distributed easily and in a timely fashion, as development is progressing steadily in these areas. His guidebooks might have a wider audience if they were available commercially but limited distribution may not be a bad thing for cliffs in remote areas with extremely limited rescue services.

Just something to think about …

You know; you got a point there!  Definitely worthy of thought and I will definitely consider this advice as I learn this process. I admire your climbing partner!  But...  I don't know? I guess the reason I want to publish the book is because it is a piece of art, detailing another piece of art I created (the crag) and it wouldn't be complete unless it was brought into this world on paper.  I want to provide the option for people to have it printed professionally.  There is also the fact that even though I probably won't make a profit, it wouldn't be half bad to recoup some of my expenses. Putting up routes is expensive.    

Back in the day you could get a publisher prefix and a block of book numbers from Bowker for free. Now a single ISBN is $125.

Tobias -  Thank you for this lead!  I will check out what Amazon Has to offer. 

caesar.salad -  The Buckskin Gulch - It's a low traffic canyon crag in S. Utah about 45 minutes from my hometown of Page. 

Ben Crowell - I really appreciate that you took the time to write such a detailed response.  Thank you. 

Lulu is not giving me the binding option I want.  My book is 9X7 Landscape with only 20 pages plus a cover and I want to do a bifold with staples or equivalent.  I have sent an email but as you have pointed out they are not really interested in answering.  

I will research ISBN and rattle that around in my head. 

Taxes. Definitely worthy of thought! 

I do not plan on having a closet full of books.  I have printing capabilities and can print books as needed to distribute locally. I just wanted there to be a print option for those who were coming in from afar. 

Great advice on the screen ratio and ebooks!!  Knowing this now, I will most definitely go with just selling the PDF and be researching the link you provided.  

Kyran Keisling wrote:

Ben Crowell - I really appreciate that you took the time to write such a detailed response.  Thank you. 

Lulu is not giving me the binding option I want.  My book is 9X7 Landscape with only 20 pages plus a cover and I want to do a bifold with staples or equivalent.  I have sent an email but as you have pointed out they are not really interested in answering.  

In that case, try the nearest Kinko's. Maybe they can even shear the long edge to 9" for you and fold, gather, and bind it. If not, and if your quantity is small enough, just buy a bone folder and a cheap saddle-stitch machine.

Also, ISBN is only relevant in the book trade. If you're selling to other types of outlets, such as gas stations, you'll want an EAN/UPC, which is a lot cheaper.

Kyran Keisling wrote:

caesar.salad -  The Buckskin Gulch - It's a low traffic canyon crag in S. Utah about 45 minutes from my hometown of Page. 

Awesome! I haven't climbed there but have driven by it on my way to coyote butte.

Paul Morrison wrote:

In that case, try the nearest Kinko's. Maybe they can even shear the long edge to 9" for you and fold, gather, and bind it. If not, and if your quantity is small enough, just buy a bone folder and a cheap saddle-stitch machine.

Also, ISBN is only relevant in the book trade. If you're selling to other types of outlets, such as gas stations, you'll want an EAN/UPC, which is a lot cheaper.

I am able to print and bind locally at high quality, so I have all the gas stations and climbing shops covered.  I am just trying to figure out how I could get a printed guide in the hands of someone from North Carolina or Colorado or New Zealand before they embarked on their trip.  It would give them something to peruse on their journey.  

caesar.salad wrote:

Awesome! I haven't climbed there but have driven by it on my way to coyote butte.

Sounds like you need a return visit! The Gulch is just but a fraction of the climbing you'll find in this region, a vast amount that will never see a guide book. 

Do you need an ISBN?

Kyran Keisling wrote:

I am able to print and bind locally at high quality, so I have all the gas stations and climbing shops covered.  I am just trying to figure out how I could get a printed guide in the hands of someone from North Carolina or Colorado or New Zealand before they embarked on their trip.  It would give them something to peruse on their journey.  

Have you asked the local shops if they sell online? 20 pages is pretty light. Not much bulk to package, ship, or store. You may be able to do this entirely locally, as one option.

If it isn't too late, think carefully about the size/format of your guide. Work backwards from paper sizes so it is very easy to print and fold, especially if you go to having people print it themselves, be that at home or through a Kinko's type place with a file they buy from your website (or whatever).

Best, Helen

Old lady H wrote:

Have you asked the local shops if they sell online? 20 pages is pretty light. Not much bulk to package, ship, or store. You may be able to do this entirely locally, as one option.

If it isn't too late, think carefully about the size/format of your guide. Work backwards from paper sizes so it is very easy to print and fold, especially if you go to having people print it themselves, be that at home or through a Kinko's type place with a file they buy from your website (or whatever).

Best, Helen

The book is complete. I could scale it slightly to fit different print sizes. I adhered to my bleeds so I have some wiggle room if I need to change the ratio a bit without too much effort. 

I have not spoken to the local shops about selling on line. I would prefer to have control of the process. As they say, "there's an app for that."

If the local copies are not a problem and that Lulu option didn't look appealing for whatever reason, what about making it available locally and then putting the guidebook on a gunks apps/rakkup/similar?

The physical copy in the pics looks great btw.