Camp 4 is now reservation only.

C4 has traditionally been a first come walk in campsite. Unfortunately since early October this is no longer the case. This historic, international site is no longer for climbers. Instead, the site is now occupied by non-climbers. Climbers now have to compete with non-climbers for sites. Climbs now have to be organized around the newly instigated reservation system that was implemented at short notice in a chaotic manner. What stops the Park Service allocating the newly developed site as a reservation only and historic C4 as a walk in campsite. It seems the Park Service is riding rough shod over the freedoms previous climbing generations fought for. Please lend your voice and oppose this change.

Colin agree 100%…. And you can include Joshua Tree and Red Rocks to that list. At one time climbers could just roll in to a spot and stay and climb for as long as you wished.
But times are a changing. Our government is much more controlling now and it is threatened by free thinking “climbing types” who don’t fit the mold of “average citizen” who can make reservations and pay $$$$$.
Is this type of change going on in Europe? 

I believe the International equivalent to C4 is Chamonix in terms of historic importance and prestige. Climatic change in Chamonix has limited the number of safe ascents of Mont Blanc. 

Is the American Alpine Club invested in protecting historic access to C4?

When were non-climbers barred from C4? Do you have to solo Grant’s or something to enter the privileged class elgible to stay at camp 4, that embassy of holy ground inside federal public lands, upon which only those, blessed by God himself with gifts of the vertical, may lay their heads?

Honestly I was excited to be able to make a reservation. Without it I have the risk of driving 14 hours and not having a place to put up my tent.

I do understand your frustration but having a walk in site doesn’t mean it’s more accessible for climbers as anyone can walk in and claim a site.

The problem is the same with most things, especially in the outdoor recreation arena; too many people. Every single outdoor activity has an overcrowding problem. I’m not aware of a better solution but I don’t know why you think lining up and hoping for a place to sleep is better for anyone. Especially in Yosemite where if you get turned away it’s not exactly a short drive to another option.

I’m genuinely not trying to be confrontational I just don’t understand why you have the desire to drive into the valley in order to be told the campground is full. This way you can save the drive.

The lottery is terrible though. Not knowing more than a couple days ahead of time makes it impossible for people with responsibilities to plan ahead

Climber here, staying at camp 4 currently and believe it or not I've seen other climbers here too. You sound pretty entitled. What makes being a climber so special that only you should be allowed in Camp 4? Just wait it out if you don't like the current system. It should only be through October, then back to first come first serve

The entitlement it takes to make this thread is staggering. 

Put your dirty puffy on, go outside at 3am, sit in the dirt and wait by your phone while you make the reservation. Helps if you have some strangers to make small talk with that don't really want to talk. 

I am pretty sure its only on lotto/reservation for like 15 more days until Nov 1. Can anyone confirm what happens after Nov 1? Back to the OG first come method? 

Interesting.  The $10, one-day-in-advance lotto system was put in place for summers as of 2019.  In my mind, that's when it ceased to be a first-come-first-served campground (in summers at least).  As recently as 31 August 2022, Yosemite's website (wayback machine) said we would have the lottery until 30 September, without mentioning what would happen after that time.  Now the website says that between 7 September and 31 October we have a standard reservation system (no lotto).  Still not clear what happens afterwards, but they keep moving the goalposts. I expect that eventually it will just be a reservation campground like the pines.

Big Red wrote:

The entitlement it takes to make this thread is staggering. 

What is entitled about bringing up a discussion in an internet forum dealing with dwindling camping access in a climbing area?

You missed out on a great opportunity to ignore this and move on with you’re day. It’s a completely harmless thing to discuss and if you’ve tried to camp in Yosemite National Park in the last year, you might understand the frustration climbers are having as literal pieces of dirt set aside for camping are now digitally monetized via a website run by BAH. Whether or not we’re “entitled” to camp doesn’t mean people can’t discuss a way to get together and make a change. 

Big Red wrote:

The entitlement it takes to make this thread is staggering. 

Agreed. It’s especially ironic because lots of people here were super mad about the lottery system, and wanted this, but now are starting to realize that climbers do not get special access to campgrounds.

It's just the natural progression of things. In "Desert Solitaire", author Edward Abbey laments the changes he witnessed at his beloved Arches National Park that occurred in the decade since the late 1950s and his first stint as a ranger there. Changes include a new entry fee to the park, a newly paved road into the park, a new rule banning firewood gathering in the park, and the arrival of more and more RVs. Imagine if he lived to see the new timed entry system at Arches.

I get it. Loss of freedom, government control, and all that. The obvious next step in Yosemite will be a timed reservation to climb specific routes on El Cap. That can't be too far off at this point. A timed entry permit will probably be required at J-Tree some time this decade. Some of us remember the days of free camping at J-Tree, but that ended in 2003. A reservation to climb Double Cross will probably be necessary in the late 21st century. What choice does the Park Service have? Their primary duty is to protect the parks. The parks have a more or less fixed amount of space for an ever increasing number of visitors, and they must be protected from overuse.     

To the OP, if your were the Secretary of Interior, what would you propose as a better solution? We can't just voice opposition to something without providing an alternative.

Is there an issue im not seeing with having every campsite walkin first come first serve? A website telling you availability has too much room for outside influence. Programmed bots can pick up first available sites before you even type recr-.

Colin Rowe wrote:

I believe the International equivalent to C4 is Chamonix in terms of historic importance and prestige. Climatic change in Chamonix has limited the number of safe ascents of Mont Blanc. 

Only very slightly comparable. Local guides suspended work on the Gouter route from mid-July to mid-August this year as they deemed it too hazardous. The mayor of Chamonix ordered the closure of the Gouter and Tête Rousse huts. He likes to grandstand and also suggested a prepaid rescue bond but this was not enacted. Nothing was done to stop unguided ascents of Mt. Blanc by this or other routes should climbers have been foolish enough to attempt them.  

The level of control exercised by government bodies that is tolerated by US climbers is inconceivable to Europeans. The only thing remotely comparable are the voluntary bans due to nesting birds but these are generally proportionate, at least in the UK, and thus mostly well-observed. 

Colin Rowe wrote:

C4 has traditionally been a first come walk in campsite. Unfortunately since early October this is no longer the case. This historic, international site is no longer for climbers. Instead, the site is now occupied by non-climbers. Climbers now have to compete with non-climbers for sites. Climbs now have to be organized around the newly instigated reservation system that was implemented at short notice in a chaotic manner. What stops the Park Service allocating the newly developed site as a reservation only and historic C4 as a walk in campsite. It seems the Park Service is riding rough shod over the freedoms previous climbing generations fought for. Please lend your voice and oppose this change.

And the possibility of a permit system for big walls???

Way back...like 20 years the NPS Yosemite did a master plan.  A big part of it was camping.  There was a plan to double Camp 4 to Swamp Slabs.

The RIVERS campgrounds have been closed and grown over from the flood of '97.

Will all the camp sites be booked up in the first seconds every Spring & Fall  Climbing Season by computer programs ? 

Did any of y'all have difficulty climbing in the valley this season?

The reason they made reservations available this fall was due to Camp4 being relatively empty. (The intended effect being to advertise the openings.) There were hundreds of spots reservable during weekdays, with weekend spots available typically a week or two in advance.

P.S. I don't mind mixing it up with tourists in the campground. Since Free Solo came out they look at you like you're some kind of death defying god.

jt newgard wrote:

P.S. I don't mind mixing it up with tourists in the campground.

Just to clarify - you’re a tourist in Yosemite just like all the other visitors.

I think it's long overdue that the NPS system begin to increase camping capacity in high demand areas.  I 100% see the need to protect the valley and other cherished landscapes.  But I also 100% see the need for everyone to have access to these landscapes.  If the demand and supply of campsites, trails, routes, etc gets to be too out of whack then those among us with the fewest resources effectively have access taken away.  If the number of people visiting the park has seen a stark increase in the last few decades, how can we expect the fixed number of camping options to still be workable and fair to all users?

There must be a way to have more primitive camping in the valley in a sustainable manner.  I think traffic is the main concern when discussion of adding campsite volume.  I personally would gladly give up personal vehicle use to rely on ONLY public transit (YARTS would need sizeable improvements), if it meant camping in the valley was easier and more affordable/accessible.  Imagine-no shortage of campsites at the massively expanded Camp 4, no need for a permit just to get into the park during peak hours, no daily fender benders at tunnel view totally tying up traffic.  Just a well run system of low emission shuttles taking people from large parking areas hear the entrances to the various trailheads, approaches, sights and sounds, etc.