Scarpa Instinct VS sizing for outdoor climbing

After tons of research online, i bought a pair of Scarpa Instinct VS.
When first trying them on, it feels like the sizing is perfect for bouldering.
The problem is, I bought it specifically for outdoor sports climbing, particular to stand on small chips.
As I'm rather new to outdoor sports climb, I'm not sure if I could wearing them for 20 mins standing on chips.
Should I get them 0.5 size up?

My street shoe size is US men 10 (EU 43), actual feet size is 268 mm long, 114 mm wide (wide foot).
The size of instinct I bought is US 10 (EU 43), shown in the photo below.
Inside the shoes, my toes bent quite a bit. I could clearly feel the pressue on my toe when standing up straight, but doesn't hurt (at least for the first 3 min).

For my 1.5 year bouldering experience, I wear a climbx beginner shoes size 9.5 (EU 41.5), fits perfect with toes slightly bent.
I then bought a pair of La Sportiva Solution size 9 (EU 42). In the general, the solution feels much tighter than the climbx beginner shoes.

The thing is, I took the Solution for outdoor climbing a few times. It is good and precise, but hurts a bit when I stand on chips.
After 3 sessions outdoor, I actually injure my foot.
Now the ball of my toe hurts if i put my body weight on my toe (normal walking is fine).

I'm now afraid that, if I wear the instinct for 20 min outdoor, the same injury will occur.
But at the same time, the sizing feels alright if I were to wear them for indoor bouldering?

I don't know if I should upgrade 0.5 size up?
or would 0.5 size up be too loose for outdoor sports climb?
or would the instinct stretch later and become perfect in size?

Thanks for any suggestion.

ps. there's no instinct anywhere in my city, so I could not try them on...

Do you feel like you have to really engage your toes to stand on small edges? (Smaller than say 0.5” deep)

I have had that injured toe feeling before and it generally has happened because my feet were not conditioned. I’d recommend a soft shoe indoors when training to build that foot muscle, so that when you are standing on smaller feet outside in a stiffer shoe, you have more resilience. Also, from the photo, I’d say you didn’t downsize enough to get the structural benefit of the shoe, which relies on being filled tightly to have more ridigity and power through the toe.

I love instinct VS. Wear em for a few sport climbing sessions and see if they break in / stretch a little bit - I bet they will. I disagree with John about sizing. I downsized pretty aggressively as a new climber-- which was maybe a better idea at the time when there were fewer shoe options available (2007). Nowadays it seems like with so many high performance shoes from different brands out there, it's a better move to find something that performs well and actually fits your foot well, and not cramming your foot into the smallest size that you possibly can. 

That being said, properly sized performance climbing shoes won't be comfortable. They're not slippers for reading the paper. If you have to pop them off right after a pitch of climbing, that's OK.

I wear these for gym sessions since they're so soft. They seems to work well for me for both, bouldering and sport. Looks to be about the same fit for me as well. 

For outdoors, I have the same exact size Vapor Vs and they're pretty much perfect for shorter sport routes. They're stiffer and less downturned imo. For longer routes I'd definitely size up and get a flatter, more comfy shoe. Just my 2 cents.

John Clark wrote:

Do you feel like you have to really engage your toes to stand on small edges? (Smaller than say 0.5” deep)

I have had that injured toe feeling before and it generally has happened because my feet were not conditioned. I’d recommend a soft shoe indoors when training to build that foot muscle, so that when you are standing on smaller feet outside in a stiffer shoe, you have more resilience. Also, from the photo, I’d say you didn’t downsize enough to get the structural benefit of the shoe, which relies on being filled tightly to have more ridigity and power through the toe.

i thought bouldering indoor for 1.5 year would be enough to build that foot muscle?

ya... i see on the internet that a lot of people downsize even more.
but with the injury caused by solution (not even downsizing that much), i wonder if i'm just not strong enough yet for a shoes like this?
if not downsizing enough, might as well get a pair of much less expensive flat shoes?

Eric Chabot wrote:

I love instinct VS. Wear em for a few sport climbing sessions and see if they break in / stretch a little bit - I bet they will. I disagree with John about sizing. I downsized pretty aggressively as a new climber-- which was maybe a better idea at the time when there were fewer shoe options available (2007). Nowadays it seems like with so many high performance shoes from different brands out there, it's a better move to find something that performs well and actually fits your foot well, and not cramming your foot into the smallest size that you possibly can. 

That being said, properly sized performance climbing shoes won't be comfortable. They're not slippers for reading the paper. If you have to pop them off right after a pitch of climbing, that's OK.

I remember with the solution that caused my foot injury, i was in pain by the end of a pitch.
with the Adrenaline, the rest of the day is still bearable, but the lasting pain started the next day.
I assume by uncomfortable, you don't mean painful?

Eric D wrote:

I wear these for gym sessions since they're so soft. They seems to work well for me for both, bouldering and sport. Looks to be about the same fit for me as well. 

For outdoors, I have the same exact size Vapor Vs and they're pretty much perfect for shorter sport routes. They're stiffer and less downturned imo. For longer routes I'd definitely size up and get a flatter, more comfy shoe. Just my 2 cents.

but vapor v is for narrow feet?

Use a shoe stretcher for width/length, put the plastic nubbins on the end for your toe knuckles.   Helps fine tune the fit. 

John Fang wrote:

I remember with the solution that caused my foot injury, i was in pain by the end of a pitch.
with the Adrenaline, the rest of the day is still bearable, but the lasting pain started the next day.
I assume by uncomfortable, you don't mean painful?

No, they shouldn't be painful. If they hurt by the end of the pitch they're too aggressively downsized. If a size up feels too sloppy, it's a bad fit, try a different brand or model of shoe. It takes some experimentation to find the right shoe for your foot.

If I wear my instincts on a multi pitch, I have to pop em off at the belays or they do hurt by the end of the climb. 

John Fang wrote:

but vapor v is for narrow feet?

I did get the Vapor Vs used, so whoever had them before me might have stretched them out.