Anchoring a fixed line?

I'm trying to improve my climbing photography by using a fixed line to rappel/ascend from. I can find loads and loads of information on ascend/descend systems, but almost nothing on setting up a fixed line to trad anchors or tree/rock anchors (anything without bolts).

When there's bolts, it's straight forward enough to use bunny ears or an alpine knot and attach them directly to the bolts. You can equalize it, it's redundant, etc.

But without bolts, I'm not sure if one method is better than others/if there's something I'm missing. Is it as simple as clipping a figure 8 on a bight to the masterpoint/shelf? Is it generally safe to use the same anchor for the fixed line and top rope belaying/belaying a second, or do people keep the fixed line separate? Literally any info on what people have done would be amazing.

I don’t see any issue using the same anchor? If it’s using natural anchors(not bolts), make sure it super bomber and you are well dialed in rope management. Because I’m sure you don’t want your rope in the shots. Also, I would consider a static line for your rope. But, I’m sure that’s debatable. 

Same anchor is fine, if a single locker and fig 8 wig you out you can back it up with another 8 clipped to the most bomber piece of gear. Then you can redirect the rope as needed for your angle/positioning.

I use alpine butterfly’s all the time in the context of big wall climbing, alpine climbing and generally odd anchor setups. I use it for distantly spaced protection where a cordelette wouldn’t begin to reach. I use it all the time because it’s adjustable and extendable and built with the bomber rope.

I would suggest against clipping a master point being top roped from because rubbing would be a concern. Either rope on rope abrasion or rope on locker gate spinning/pressing it open.

Tie into the first piece of an anchor either with an 8 or overhand on a bight (or an alpine butterfly of course!) and then tie inline alpine butterfly’s with the loops as long as needed to create equalization.

Because gear is usually spaced horizontally apart compared to the master point of a cordelette anchor, it’s typically easy enough to get the fixed line to sit slightly to the side and avoid abrasion from other parts of the system.

I’ll post some photos later when my internet is better

Here’s one for now. I’ll find some more to post up.

This one was a single pitch ice climb where the belayer and climber began at the top of a crevasse and the climber was lowered into the climb.

The belayer is anchored with the 8 and butterfly allowing our master point and shelf to be clean and clear for belaying/lowering only. 

Here’s another

Here’s an anchor of mine from the top out of Lurking Fear. Two alpine butterfly’s and a clove hitch on 4 cams.

Potential improvements include: The green carabiner should have the gate facing out from the rock. The purple totem doesn’t have ideal equalization and is therefor acting more like a backup instead of sharing the load.

The pitch rises up from the left. The rope going down on the right was the spare rope going to my harness. If I needed a master point to belay from above on, I would tie one additional alpine butterfly inline on the rope on the left below the others. 

Fixed rope into three anchor points with a quad anchor attached to two points. The knots are all alpine butterfly’s in this case.  

If you need to tie a rope around an object, like a tree, use a bowline, or a bowline on a bite. Remember that all bowline knots need a backup knot because bowlines are inherently slippery.

This is the second to last anchor on Prodigal Sun. All the “bolts” in this anchor are drilled angle pitons. This is the case for a large portion of the route as well.

The rope went from here downwards towards a sharp (ish) edge. Rather than let my rope be weighted over the edge for my partner to jug up the line, I used my GriGri to rappel down to the last piece of pro below the edge and fixed the rope again there with a little slack to avoid abrasion on the edge. This process is called a re-belay. The primary attachment anchor is higher up, but fixing the rope to intermittent protection along the way is easier on your rope and can make it easier to jug the line with a little less stretch. 

As Alex noted above use a rebelay and pad rope on any edges, especially  with dynamic rope, to avoid chafing. 

For trees a tensionless hitch is probably best btw, and for trad anchors I agree that if you're using the same anchor as a TR that's fine as long as you keep it away from the TR, which might be as easy as using the shelf instead of the master point. And I agree that rebelays are important to protect your rope, you could consider padding it as well though.

Jenn Mori wrote:

I'm trying to improve my climbing photography by using a fixed line to rappel/ascend from. 

How is the photography coming along? 

I was taught in glacier rescue to make a solid 3 point anchor, then clip the rope in with an 8, the do what you need to do. Static lines are great if you're ascending/descending. If you have your rope doubled so you van retrieve it after rapping, a stone knot will block both sides well also. As with all anchors, make sure the lines aren't rubbing (rope management) and biners aren't on edges and you're good to go!